AP Strange: 00:22

Pardon me while I have a strange interlude. But there is nothing else. Life is an obscure oboe bumming a ride on the omnibus of art. Among the misty corridors of pine, and in those corridors I see figures, strange figures. Welcome back, my friends, to The AP Strange Show.

AP Strange: 01:08

I'm your host, AP Strange. This is my show, and today's show is brought to you by Strange Love brand mechanical prosthesis. If you need an extra limb, if you're missing a limb and you want something mechanical to replace it so that it's better than just the regular old kinds of mechanical prosthesis prosthetics. I'm not actually sure what what what the proper pluralization is, but I didn't ask. So get yourself a Strange Love and, you'll you'll have an arm that that has a mind of its own.

AP Strange: 01:47

So on on the show tonight, as you might have guessed, we're we're gonna be talking about Stanley Kubrick, who is one of my favorite directors. And this came via listener request. When I was thinking about who can I have on to talk Kubrick, I figured the perfect person is an old friend of mine and yours, somebody you've heard probably for years on Where Did the Road Go? If you listen to that show. He's a filmmaker, a teacher, and something of a mystic and a great guy to talk to, and it's been far too long since I spoke to him.

AP Strange: 02:20

So welcome to the show, Chris Ernst.

Chris Ernst: 02:22

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it, AP. You know, it's, it's great to get to talk to you. You know? It's been it's been far too long.

Chris Ernst: 02:31

I really have. It's been

AP Strange: 02:32

Yeah. It really has.

Chris Ernst: 02:33

Great thing to talk about. I'm ready to talk about all of the vital juices that are being stolen from us.

AP Strange: 02:38

Right. Our essences. Our vitals. Our essences. Yeah.

AP Strange: 02:48

Well, and for listeners too, we we did have an occult cinema chat at one point, and I don't even remember what movies we talked to about specifically, but that was on Conspira Normal. So if people enjoy this, you can also go back and find that as well. But yeah, the the the vital bodily fluids that might be a great place to start. I mean, I was saying before we hit the record button, Doctor Strange Love or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb is something I could talk about for a full episode all on its own.

Chris Ernst: 03:23

Yeah. It's an amazing film. I mean, as a film itself, I won't get too like film professor y about it, but it's a yeah. Like, I just watched it the other semester. I showed it to some students and, you know, it's pretty amazing.

Chris Ernst: 03:38

Just like that iconic image of the circular light above the desk, you know, in the the whatever. I forget the name of the the the war room there. Such an iconic image.

AP Strange: 03:52

Yeah. Well, every image in that and it's pretty early for Kubrick. It's kind of where he was really first developed his his singular voice as a director. And I don't know if it's just like I have a thing for those early efforts, but Strange Love, I think, is my favorite Kubrick film.

Chris Ernst: 04:11

Yeah. I mean, it might be mine too. I think going from like, I don't know, depending on my mood, I that's that's sort of what, you know, I was thinking about because I was trying to think to which which of his works really resonated with me the most. And I think over the years, different ones have, you know, done different things. And I think that's one of the interesting things about him is that, you know, his interests are so varied that his ability to engage across these different genres, but still retain the core sort of storytelling methodology that he did is one of the things that has made him from like a cinematic point of view so resonant with so many people.

Chris Ernst: 04:55

Because you think of like Barry Lyndon to, well, to Strange Love or, you know, to Full Metal Jacket, like, just those three there, the breadth of that, while still maintaining that Kubrick feel, I find to be really amazing in the same way that I love Lynch. You know?

AP Strange: 05:13

Right. Yeah. I think they're both directors that are unique in in their own respective ways, but but equally powerful. And I feel like in recent years, Lynch has had kind of a huge celebration of his works. I mean, ever since the Twin Peaks return, I think, like, everybody has gone full Lynch.

AP Strange: 05:34

And it may be worried that people maybe forgot about old Kubrick, but I did get a request to do this show. So he endures, you know, the Kubrick stuff really endures. And speaking of that, I mean, Doctor Strange Love is still incredibly relevant.

Chris Ernst: 05:53

Oh my God, Completely. Yeah. It's it is in so many sad ways. Yeah. And if anybody hasn't seen it, I don't know.

Chris Ernst: 06:02

Should is this the do we wanna give a quick synopsis of of what Strange Love is really about? And if people Yeah. Haven't

AP Strange: 06:09

Maybe. Yeah. If people haven't seen it. We're gonna give spoilers for a movie that's been out.

Chris Ernst: 06:13

Yeah. I'll try not to spoil it too much, but yeah. Right. Exactly. Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 06:17

Let's let's spoil. I don't know. But it's, you know, it's like a it's a treatise on the Cold War and essentially like American imperialism and, you know, post Nazi government. There are veiled not veiled, really, allusions to Kissinger. I mean Right.

Chris Ernst: 06:39

Strange Love is in many ways kind of this proxy for Kissinger. So it's just overtly political movie. It's essentially about, like

AP Strange: 06:47

is a it's a satire, and it's about mutual Satire.

Chris Ernst: 06:51

Yes.

AP Strange: 06:51

Yeah. Mutually assured destruction.

Chris Ernst: 06:53

Mutually assured destruction and the the insanity of the military industrial complex and, you know, whatever the equivalent of the proto Pete Hagsett that's in it.

AP Strange: 07:05

Yeah. George C. Scott's character.

Chris Ernst: 07:07

George C. Scott's character. Or or the the the why am I completely blanking on his name there? Ripper.

AP Strange: 07:15

Sterling Sterling Hayden?

Chris Ernst: 07:19

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm totally forgetting the name of his character. It's like

AP Strange: 07:23

General Jack t Ripper.

Chris Ernst: 07:24

Yeah. Jack t Ripper. Right. Okay. Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 07:26

Exactly.

AP Strange: 07:29

Yeah. And it's kind of funny because I remember watching that as as a naive teenager and Ripper essentially Jack D Ripper goes insane and he's in he's the one with his finger on the button. Basically, he can he can command people to drop the nukes on on Russia. And and and it's like he's sitting there talking about how the the the communist the secret communist plot to steal our precious bodily fluids or vital essences, you know, and and it had to do with fluoridation of water. And it was like years later, saw somebody talking about like fluoridation in the water conspiracy theories.

AP Strange: 08:12

I'm like are you kidding me? This is a real theory that people actually believe? Like probably like they were making fun of this in the sixties like

Chris Ernst: 08:20

100%. Yeah I put that in like a movie of mine. There's this you know these there's this brochure flyer for, you know, kind of a a a support group for conspiracy theorists, and one of it was, you know, did you grow up with fluoride in your water? Right. It it's it's crossed over to that the weird conspirituality side of things too.

Chris Ernst: 08:43

I remember talking to Go Rightly about, like, the the the everybody in California all of a sudden, like, all the yoga moms going anti fluoride.

AP Strange: 08:53

Yeah. Yeah. No. I'm sure there might be arguments that could be made, but, like, I I don't know. But Right.

AP Strange: 09:02

But but, like, all I hear is the the general ripper, talking about it. Me too. While chomping on a cigar.

Chris Ernst: 09:10

Yeah. Yeah. You know, the the the troops have low tea. They have to be, you know, they have to have their vital juices brought up.

AP Strange: 09:18

Right. Their testosterone, you know, checked. Make sure that's, yep, it's gotta be high enough. Yeah. Oh, boy.

AP Strange: 09:29

Yeah. It's sad. It really is sad that how how poignant it is. And actually, like, Strange Love is not as ridiculous as our current world now. No.

Chris Ernst: 09:39

Not at all.

AP Strange: 09:41

It actually seems pretty tame.

Chris Ernst: 09:42

That iconic image of, like, the Texas cowboy, riding atop the nuclear bomb as it goes down. Right. You know? That still could be our logo. In fact, maybe it's gonna be a meme that comes out of, you know, the Department of War at some point soon.

AP Strange: 09:57

Slim Pickens riding the bomb.

Chris Ernst: 09:59

Slim Pickens.

AP Strange: 10:01

And I mean, and then that's crazy because like, that's just one of those cinematic images that will be around forever. You know, that's just like that's that's a permanent stamp on like American pop culture and and our collective unconscious now is Slim Piggins riding the bomb. Yeah. Which means the end of the world. Right?

AP Strange: 10:21

Like, that's Right. You know?

Chris Ernst: 10:23

Yes. Yeah. And another thing too, which I I you know, I think for me, that was the first time that I'd seen in the context of Kubrick, because I don't think I'd seen a Lolita before I saw that. It with, you know, having Peter Sellers play multiple roles, which became this sort of thing, which I just that's always been I've done it a couple of times. I mean, you know, I make, you know, z grade midnight movies.

Chris Ernst: 10:52

So it's less, I think, it's less in your face or doesn't get noticed, but it's I think it's such a cool thing, and I don't even know why I loved it so much. I think for me, there was something about the the, like, symbolic gesture of having a single person play these different roles that but with I mean, it only could be Peter Sellers that did it because he does it so well. That really, like, it imprinted in my brain as a filmmaker. And I think people too, I mean, they still use it kind of more from Lolita as like a a trope, you know, of Yeah. The actor playing these these different roles.

AP Strange: 11:34

Yeah. And I mean, that was kind of early on for sellers as an actor like being able to really improvise and and experiment with these things in a movie because I mean he had done TV and radio prior a lot you know but that was as a as a cinematic actor you know, he was able to spread his wings and the collaborations between him and Kubrick were phenomenal and only made both of them better, I think. But yeah, it's astounding playing three different roles and they they're all very, very different. Yeah. And but yeah, I mean, we were talking prior to recording.

AP Strange: 12:12

I gotta keep straight of what we said when we were recorded now, but about the the power structure and how it's how it's presented in the movie. And and, yeah, I mean, you kind of do have Strange Love and the president as, like, flip sides of the same coin in in that in the war room where like the president is just kind of like the public face and he's he's he's actually kind of he has to rely on everybody else and then you have basically the Nazi scientist Strange Love that's that he's relying on for any scientific information. It's it's kind yeah. Of

Chris Ernst: 12:52

I mean, you hit a couple of things there that I think are are really interesting about, you know, Kubrick and in general and Strange Love is that, you know, first off, you're talking about paper clip before that was really, like, public knowledge. I mean, I I wanna say public, but, like, you know and this plays into this idea that a lot of people, I think, ended up having that somehow, Kubrick, you know, and not to jump too far too deeply into the conspiracy theory, but, like, huge part of it is that I think there are a lot of people that there's become this trope of people thinking that he was this, like, intellectual disclosure mechanism for the elites, that he knew all this stuff and that all of his films have these, you know, occult or, you know, hidden structures and architectures and symbols and codes that are revealing this how things are governing the world. And the thing that came from that, which I don't even think it started this way, but there are, you know, some people engaging with the conspiracy side of it that think Kubrick is trying to show or was trying to show us that, these are like, not just show us, but this is part of some sort of mechanism where the elite are transforming or, like, casting a spell on us.

Chris Ernst: 14:15

Right. It's the whole revelation of the method, you know, where occultists who rule the world, they practice magic, they have to get our consent to do bad things. So they do it by putting hints in, like, you know, Beyonce's Yeah. Performance at the Super Bowl halftime show

AP Strange: 14:34

Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 14:34

Which, you know, is not something that I personally believe in, particularly when it gets into sort of, I think, dangerous QAnon or sort of dark synchro mysticism territory where, you know, you're punching down or hurting people. But it's it's funny for me how that has become such a strong thing. And I mean, for me at least, when you think about somebody like Kubrick who was so well read, so well informed, I mean, the guy just, like, he ate up literature and information, and he was watching films till the very end. Like, you know, I looked at this list recently of, BFI. I think it was the British Film Institute.

Chris Ernst: 15:18

It feels like lists he he had done over the years of his favorite films, and he was watching stuff right up until his death. And he loved, you know, new interesting things. So for me, I guess, I feel like the paperclip thing or even references to MK Ultra, which happened throughout, you know, people talk about that in The Shining and other films of his, that they they really this is a well informed artist who maybe had heard hints of these things, you know, which they they were existed out there. I mean, they weren't completely, you know, under lock and key. It just wasn't public knowledge.

Chris Ernst: 15:53

And, you know, I think that there's a lot of, you know, the the culture of America not wanting to admit to it and many other you know, mean, Russia did the same thing. Japan did the same thing. But, yeah, I I that the the inference to paper clip there. And then I also think, you know, and this is jumping far away from the conspiracy for a second, that the way in which he used Sellers as this sort of mirror where you have the president and then you have Strange Love and is a very, like that was, you know, lit that's where Lynch got it from, this idea of the mirroring of the doppelgangers and using it cinematically. I feel like that was a strong influence on him is the way that Kubrick used it.

Chris Ernst: 16:35

You know, he took it in different direction. But

AP Strange: 16:37

Oh, it's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's making me think of a couple different things. But but, you know, I think another thing that Lynch and Kubrick both had in common was balancing the low and high brow elements of things because I I you see a lot of descriptions of Kubrick as a perfectionist and somebody that was doing, a million retakes and difficult to work with and stuff.

AP Strange: 17:06

But then you see other people talk about how he had a wonderful sense of humor. Like, I think I had read at one point that one moment he'll be talking about some highbrow literature. In the next moment, he'll be doing, like, an impression of Steve Martin from The Jerk. Like

Chris Ernst: 17:20

Yeah. Yeah. So

AP Strange: 17:21

Absolutely. Like, these two these two ends of the artistic form and and saw them as equally valid and worked both into his movies because he can be darkly funny even in his most disturbing movies. Right? Completely.

Chris Ernst: 17:36

And the idea of satire, I think, is such an important thing too. Like, he was you know, I used to think he was British when I before, you know, I think it's like in the eighties when I first seen something of his, not only because of his sensibility, but because of the sort of dry humor. My my family was always in, you know, my my grandmother was a European. And so I grew up, like British humor was a thing when I was growing up, like Fawlty Towers and stuff like that. And just this idea of satire, very dry humor.

Chris Ernst: 18:06

And yeah, I think that he was dealing very much with satire. And there are several interviews I've read of his over the, you know, the years where he talks about how this is satire that he's making. Like Clockwork Orange, for for example, Key, there was this, the interviewee where he was talking about how it's the nature of satire to state the opposite of truth as if it were truth. And, that's why, you know, Clockwork Orange is is horrendous things that are happening. That's not him saying this is, you know, like this is the way we should do it.

Chris Ernst: 18:47

It's that that sort of fine line of creativity where you're trying to create something that is maybe ugly and monstrous to show or point out something else as an allegory. But for him, I think a lot of what he was doing was satire. There was this humor that was there, even if it was horrible and like disgusting like a lot of Clockwork Oranges.

AP Strange: 19:13

Right. Yeah. I mean, there's Clockwork Orange and Full Metal Jacket both are ones that I haven't felt the need to revisit as much just because they are very dark and disturbing movies. Right? Yeah.

AP Strange: 19:26

But there are those moments in them that are you feel bad saying that it's funny, but it's it's dark. There's a dark, like, black humor to it Yeah. In some aspects. Know?

Chris Ernst: 19:37

Absolutely think that's the case. And, you know, I think he kind of reveled in that, you know, getting people under people's skin, as you know, many artists do. Right. So, yeah, it's it's yeah, I haven't thought about Full Metal Jacket. I'm sorry.

Chris Ernst: 19:53

That just, like, set me off because I started thinking about I haven't seen that in a while, and I I really want to. I was reading something about Vincent talking about and I forget, so I won't retell it try to retell it. But he was talking about, you know, getting the shots in in that film and, you know, the process. And it was just very interesting, you know, very, like, artistically rich. And, yes, to kind of mirror what you were saying, you know, Kubrick was known to be this very, you know, hardworking whip cracking, but not really whip cracking in the sense that, like, he wanted to get things right.

Chris Ernst: 20:25

And he had a very particular artistic vision. And there was a level of, like, he get he get lost in the the fugue state of being, you know, an artist. You could there are these stories about when he was creating the final sequence for 2001, the Stargate sequence, that he essentially had this whole loft in New York and Manhattan that was just had, you know, multiple tanks of caustic chemicals and liquids with cameras above them. And he would be in there for hours and days, and he was getting sick from it. And he but that's the kind of, like, obsession that he has.

Chris Ernst: 21:06

And, you know, some artists obviously will end up being jerks to other people because of that obsession. But I think that's what his his modus operandi was. And part of that was, you know, this really fantastic sense of humor that he had as a foil to the intensity.

AP Strange: 21:23

Right. Yeah. Because I feel like I feel like Strange Love is the only one that's well, maybe Lolita could could be this too, but it's straightforward as satire. You know, the rest of them are the satire is a little bit more oblique

Chris Ernst: 21:39

definitely

AP Strange: 21:41

but Strange Love was meant to be a a drama at first and I was I read this the in preparation for the show, I didn't know this before, but there was a draft where they were going to be telling it from the perspective of an alien civilization that had watched these events play out. And I'm like, wow, I didn't know that.

Chris Ernst: 22:05

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's great.

Chris Ernst: 22:09

I mean, it's yeah. I I there was a lot during the production of that that, you know, he was had to be very insistent on a lot of the choices that he made that the studios were not, you know, not behind. And it was it was one of those, you know, the the production sort of history of that and the the hurdles that he had to go through. Like, I don't think that film could be made these days. That was definitely like a early Hollywood getting, you know, or early new Hollywood, you know, allowing some really interesting stuff to come through.

AP Strange: 22:40

Yeah. There was a lot of weird things that had to fall into place for that movie to even exist. And part of it was was, I guess, a tax a tax incentive to film in Britain. So that's why he was working with sellers and everything. And yeah.

AP Strange: 22:57

So and, you know, know, his prior work and and helping them complete Spartacus was really what what what kind of gave him the the clout to be able

Chris Ernst: 23:12

to Yeah. No. That's exactly right.

AP Strange: 23:14

End things. Right? So Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 23:17

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's I I found that list of, you know, the stuff that he was looking at later in his life. And, you know, he was like, white man can't jump is on his list of favorites. You know?

Chris Ernst: 23:31

The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Silence of the Lambs, White Men Can't Jump, American Werewolf in London. I mean, you know? Yeah. I'm I'm in for all those. Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 23:39

Interesting. Interesting. Apparently, he hated The

AP Strange: 23:43

He hated The Wizard Wizard of Oz.

Chris Ernst: 23:45

This is according to one of his friends and and and sort of biographers and his daughter, I guess, it's a rumor that he hated The Wizard of Oz.

AP Strange: 23:57

So that's interesting because I recall I think we've talked about this before that Adam rightly wrote a piece at one point referencing the prevalence of The Wizard of Oz and like MK Ultra conspiracy theory stuff and Eyes Wide Shut in particular. And it's interesting to contrast that with David Lynch who who is obsessed with The Wizard of Oz and worked it into, like, pretty much everything he ever did.

Chris Ernst: 24:22

Yeah. Yeah. I know. I know. It totally is.

Chris Ernst: 24:24

Yeah. No. I actually have that pulled up the Go Rightly article here. It's Yeah. It's interesting.

Chris Ernst: 24:29

He talks specifically about, Eyes Wide Shut and

AP Strange: 24:32

Right. Yeah. It's interesting to learn that Kubrick hated it because

Chris Ernst: 24:38

It really is. Yeah.

AP Strange: 24:40

Well, there's that tension. It's the, you know, so that that's, and that's kind of what he did is like, cinematic alchemy is the tension of opposites there. Right?

Chris Ernst: 24:49

So that's a great way to say it. And I think that, yeah, the type that that that example of what he was doing with those vats of chemicals is a good, like, you know, metaphor for the sort of what he's trying to do cinematically. And I I think it's I I love too that you use the the the word alchemist because I think that a lot of times, you know, I think it's important for me to say this because I I I hate to see sometimes weird art get, you know, lumped into that spirit cooking, QAnon conspiracy space, not only because of the the ignorance of it, but because I think that the the type of and it's not to say that there aren't some artists who are jerks or, you know, manipulative to people, but this idea that somehow, oh, you know, or, you know, abstract expressionism doesn't really exist because it was, you know, supported by the CIA.

AP Strange: 25:44

Mhmm.

Chris Ernst: 25:45

That's a whole other thing. But it is that a lot of artists, I think, particularly ones who have the freedom to be able to explore, you know, ideas and creative expression in a very open way, and sometimes they're not because of the sort of commercial pressures of things, is that they really are trying to add things that are mystical to what they're doing, but not in an overt sense like, okay, I'm trying to cast a spell on you or I'm trying to, you know, influence you in some way. But it's the fact that when you're creating art and, you know, you probably know this, anybody who does, you know, creative artwork, there's like you're trying to almost put into physical form something that you that goes beyond language and image. Yeah. And there is something mystical and magical about that.

Chris Ernst: 26:42

And when you pull things that are interesting from literature or from, you know, if you are interested in the occult, you pull things from there because they act as really great symbols. It doesn't necessarily mean that you're engaging with it in the way that, you know, it's put forth, which really is more like that revelation of the method, this idea that there's some sort of as part of some nefarious control system. And a lot of times, it's trying to trying to express something that's inex inexpressible or psych psychological. You know? I mean, the surrealists were all about psychology.

Chris Ernst: 27:16

You know?

AP Strange: 27:16

Yeah. It's what I refer to as trying to f the ineffable.

Chris Ernst: 27:21

Yeah. Totally. Yes.

AP Strange: 27:23

But yeah, no, I'm totally with you there because I I think you and I both have the same kind of disdain for the dark synchro mysticism that that seems to imply or outright say that filmmakers or artists are are trying specifically to give you this information if you have the right eyes to see it or or they're trying to subliminally control you with these symbols and archetypes. When it really is like a more appropriate gnostic interpretation of it, I guess, would be that when you're tapping into that creative impulse, you can't if you're doing it correctly, you can't help but channel emanations of divine forms that are already existing. So There you go.

Chris Ernst: 28:11

No. That well so well stated. Yes. That's absolutely the case. Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 28:15

And in the case of, you know, if you wanna go into the whole the the the turn that it goes into, you know, Hollywood is a bunch of, you know, pedophile elite cabal. I mean, the thing that I always say, and this is a general thing that has nothing to do with Kubrick, is that in positions of corporate power, you basically have organized crime is what it is. And organized crime involves sex trafficking, horrible things you do to people. It's not necessarily a satanic cabal. It's, you know, it's the mafia.

Chris Ernst: 28:46

And unfortunately capitalism, really. Yes. It's capital yeah. Right. Capitalism.

Chris Ernst: 28:50

Well, I was saying, like, governments and corporations are essentially transnational organized crime. Depends on it just depends on who's writing the laws and enforcing them. You know, so yeah, I mean, sucks in the sense that it's a giant capitalist corporation that's been taken over by greedy people, and they're probably many of them are involved in organized crime. But film or, you know, the the American film culture is not some sort of, you know, I, you know, I don't need to tell you this or anybody else, but this idea of being some sort of decadent, you know, cult, very much not the case.

AP Strange: 29:28

Yeah. And and for what it's worth, Kubrick hated the Hollywood scene, and he was afraid to live in New York because of the crime. So, like, he spent the last, like, four decades of his life living in England.

Chris Ernst: 29:40

Mhmm. Yeah.

AP Strange: 29:41

Yeah. Because I think I saw a quote where he said there were only three cities in the world where he could live and work, and that was Hollywood and New York City and London. And London was the best for him. So he just lived there and never left if he could help it. Yeah.

AP Strange: 30:00

Yeah. So yeah. And and I think art in general, you know, for, for, for eons has always been a way of, of sublimating our hopes and fears and having, having compromise and a halfway point where we can meet the divine. Yeah. And and the best artists do that really well.

AP Strange: 30:31

And, you know, with Kubrick could do it just with the framing of a shot and the geometry of it, which that's something that blew my mind early on, when when YouTube was still kind of a new thing. I think somebody made this video that was a super mashup of all the the geometric patterns that he reuses all the time.

Chris Ernst: 30:52

And I know that exact one that you're talking about. Yes.

AP Strange: 30:54

It's been around forever. So I'm sure if you'll go on YouTube and Yeah. I think it just type like Kubrick sacred geometry or just geometry. It's like, you see how he he he's consistent. He's always got this, the perspective shot that he does that sticks with you.

AP Strange: 31:13

You know, it's like, it burns into your mind.

Chris Ernst: 31:16

Yeah. One point per he had these two he was using with this one point perspective that you can see very, you know, distinctly in the, like, The Shining, the use of Steadicam there. But he also was like, if you take, like, stills from Barry Lyndon, he was really into using the, the sacred geometry, talking about the golden ratio, the golden mean, the Fibonacci sequence, which is a classic, you know, like that is classic art history composition. But he was so deft at doing that. Like, if you look at it, there's, like, all these different levels of him applying that kind of geometry to it.

Chris Ernst: 31:53

It's, like, not just in the blocking, but it's in the way the light hits it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's amazing.

AP Strange: 31:58

Yeah. It's it's fantastic. And and once you have it, it it shown to you visually with comparisons and like in a montage form, it's like, wow, like this guy really was on another level. And I guess he was doing that the whole time from what I was reading just the other day. One of his earliest efforts was just kind of a a small scale documentary and he was already trying to frame shots that way.

Chris Ernst: 32:23

Yeah.

AP Strange: 32:23

Yeah. Totally. It's crazy.

Chris Ernst: 32:27

Yeah. He's an avid photographer too. He was like, that was a big thing. You know, he was like all about, you know, and that he talked sometimes in his interviews about how some directors, you know, aren't that. They like basically look over where the and they go, okay.

Chris Ernst: 32:41

You cinematographer, set up a three shot there and they never even looked through the camera. And he's like, I can't I can't understand how somebody could do that. Know? How can you make a film?

AP Strange: 32:50

Well, they rely on their their people to

Chris Ernst: 32:53

do Their that people to do it.

AP Strange: 32:55

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, he was intimately involved with all those aspects. Yeah.

AP Strange: 33:01

And you you mentioned the Steadicam and The Shining, and I guess that was kinda one of the first times that was employed that way. Right?

Chris Ernst: 33:07

You're absolutely right. Yes. And it was because, like, they couldn't have gotten those shots in the hallways and in the the the maze with track, which is the way you'd usually do it. You would lay down this what looks like like train tracks, and you basically have a tripod that's on wheels and, you know, you push the camera forward. And it's different than a zoom.

Chris Ernst: 33:28

Like, doesn't give you the same sort of visual thing. And he liked to use these really wide lenses that would distort around the edges, that give this really amazing look to it. And yeah, that was the first time that they really implemented a Steadicam in such a serious way. And it was, very difficult too because at that point, it was all based on weights. So you had basically had to have, like, this really jacked athletic camera operator who could, like, run with hundreds of pounds of carefully balanced weights on them down a hallway or through a maze.

AP Strange: 34:01

So So it's kinda like a ballast or something? Like

Chris Ernst: 34:04

Yeah. It's you basically you you basically have it's a counterweight is all it really is. So you have your camera balanced on what's like this pole and you're holding it with this like gimbal with a bunch of ball bearings in it and you have to weigh it perfectly. So basically, the center of gravity is right in the middle. So there's it won't tip at all.

Chris Ernst: 34:29

And then you move it by doing little tiny motions with your hand and your wrist. It's very difficult. And at that point, you had to train. It was like a, you know, a physical art that you had to do too. These days, it's a lot easier because you have the it's basically stabilizers that are made out of gyroscopes and and it's all gimbals, everything you find in like a a a, you know, a drone or something like that.

Chris Ernst: 34:52

But, yeah, really hard when they did it initially.

AP Strange: 34:55

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And they're just following Danny around on his little tricycle going down the hallway and stuff. That is crazy.

AP Strange: 35:07

Yeah. I think The Shining might have been my first Kubrick. I'm not sure. But I I know for my part, Stanley Kubrick was the first director that I got way into. It was the first time, like, I recognized the director's name, and I'm like, I'm gonna watch everything this guy made.

AP Strange: 35:25

Totally. Totally. But, The Shining scared the hell out of me when I was kid.

Chris Ernst: 35:32

It's really scary. I saw it again recently, actually, on a big screen. We they have a revival theater here in the city and I took my one of my classes to go see The Shining a couple years ago and I hadn't seen it in theater in a long time and man, it was so good. Like, it it it and it's scary. It's it's so scary but the you know, for whatever you wanna say about the the difficulties or that Stephen King has with it, it's a completely different thing than Stephen King.

Chris Ernst: 36:01

I love Stephen King too. He's over here in a different place. I like his books. It's something different. And he was doing something different with it too.

Chris Ernst: 36:09

I you know, in some of the interviews that, and a little bit that I remember, I think I showed you this before the show. But if anybody wants a really great biography on Stanley Kubrick, this is kind of I mean, you see how big this is. I got this about twenty years ago when I read it, and I I remember some stuff, but not a lot

AP Strange: 36:27

Oh, who's the author? Because we're

Chris Ernst: 36:28

not even in

AP Strange: 36:29

the video. So

Chris Ernst: 36:29

Vince this is Vincent Labruto. Oh, yeah. That's right. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 36:33

Vincent Labruto. And Vincent Labruto wrote this book called A Biography, and it's pretty comprehensive. He did this really in-depth research into it. And for anybody that wants to know more about Kubrick's life and sort of details, I I you can probably find it. I mean, I found it used somewhere.

Chris Ernst: 36:56

I could probably find

AP Strange: 36:56

it used. Looks like it's about 720 pages or so. It is

Chris Ernst: 37:01

it is probably that. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

AP Strange: 37:06

No. I'll have to get that. That sounds Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 37:08

But, yeah, the the the the The Shining's great. And it's one of the things that he was sorry. Back to what I was saying is that he was really interested in The Shining in, trying to make you wonder throughout whether or not the supernatural is real. And it wasn't that he wanted to prove it was or wasn't. He wanted that tension of, you know, is this psycho psychology or is this not?

Chris Ernst: 37:36

And it really, you know, if anybody that's seen the movie, again, spoilers for a old movie, you know, nothing supernatural that you could, you know, put beyond somebody's hallucinations happens until Jack is locked in the freeze in in the cooler and the lock opens, like, by way of ghost. Yeah. And, you know, that was very important to him in that, you know, he was trying to explore this space. You know, he he was really interested in William James. And when they were talking, I don't know if people know who William James is, but he was this basically the father, one of the fathers of psychology.

Chris Ernst: 38:17

Harvard has a building named after him, William James Hall, where they teach all their psychology. But he was the guy that wrote this book called, Variety of Spiritual Experience. And he was, like, way into the mystical and sigh and, you know, the numinous. And this is before science really kinda kicked those things out the door. And one of the things that, he was doing in, I think, both The Shining and 2,001 that he talks talks about, like, you know, trying to take fantasy and, to use it to undermine incredulity.

Chris Ernst: 38:56

And I I don't really I didn't really know if I understood what that meant, but he wants to, like and here I have this quote that I took from me. Says, reason can take you to the border of these areas, meaning fantasy and science fiction, but from there on, you can be guided only by your imagination because I think we strain at the limits of reason and enjoy the temporary sense of freedom with which we gain by such exercises of our of our imagination. So we really wanted to take the audience and put them in this space where there's this tension between, like, what's real and what's imagined, which I think is an amazing kind of, you know, way to think about creating a a film or any piece of art.

AP Strange: 39:38

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's it's it's a bit distinct from what Coleridge would have called the willing suspension of disbelief. Yes. Because you're almost unwilling.

AP Strange: 39:49

You have to be coaxed into it. And and it's a puzzle for you to solve while you're watching. So you're you're sucked in and you're really you're put in a position of deciding for yourself as it plays out.

Chris Ernst: 40:01

Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, I

AP Strange: 40:02

mean, and that's suspense, but it's it's more than just suspense. Right? So

Chris Ernst: 40:07

Yeah. I mean, I think it's it's, you know, I know people use the term liminality and throw it around a lot, which really means, you know, you're supposed to be, like, an in between space. It doesn't necessarily mean, like, backrooms, though that could be liminal. But, is that I do think it is a limp like, is trying to in the in almost the, like, literary sense of liminality where people write, you know oh gosh, what's the name for Gabriela Garcia Marquez's genre?

AP Strange: 40:38

Like yeah. I know.

Chris Ernst: 40:40

It's called magical realism.

AP Strange: 40:41

Yeah. I always forget that. Yeah. I could never come up with

Chris Ernst: 40:45

it either. Yeah. I bring too many too much information in there.

AP Strange: 40:49

Into the realm of Borges. Yeah. Yes.

Chris Ernst: 40:52

Exactly. And and that and I I I'm sure Kubrick would be happy to be compared to Borges. You know, he's that that he was into that kind of stuff.

AP Strange: 41:00

Yeah. Yeah. And and it almost makes it seem like Stephen King's work would be a weird choice. But I think he was on the lookout for some kind of haunted house or horror feature that he could do. And from what I was reading, he got offered The Exorcist and turned it down.

AP Strange: 41:20

Yeah. Yeah. That would have been kind of wild. I mean, that would have been something. I mean, I feel like The Exorcist is is a very thoroughly Friedkin movie, so it's hard to imagine it being anybody else.

AP Strange: 41:31

But thinking of Kubrick doing it would be that would do so much more cerebral. And

Chris Ernst: 41:38

Yeah. Right. It's like the whole David Lynch doing Return of the Jedi. What would it have been

AP Strange: 41:43

like? Or Yauravsky doing Dune.

Chris Ernst: 41:47

Or exactly. Right? Yeah. Some of that sentiment the the cinematic trivia, I guess, is according to Kubrick, he didn't read The Shining as the novel first. He read the script that the the guy who'd who did the screenplay, which I'm totally spacing on his name.

Chris Ernst: 42:05

And he said it was really the strength of that that made him wanna do it. So Yeah. You know, which I mean, again, makes sense. Like, it's very removed from what Stephen King did. But Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 42:15

It exists in its own right as something, you know, amazing.

AP Strange: 42:19

So I'm with you on on as far as assessment of King goes because I feel exactly the same way. I love Stephen King. Well, I love Stephen King about half the time. Yeah. I like him another quarter of the time, and then there's a quarter of his stuff I really don't like.

AP Strange: 42:35

But but Yes. One of the problems with King is he's so precious about every little detail, and he thinks it all needs to be in there. But the thing about The Shining is I read the book after I saw the movie, and I had the old paperback with like the yellow cover. Don't know. Yeah.

AP Strange: 42:54

Yeah. I'm talking about it. I used bookstore and it fell apart completely because I read it a couple times and the binding just kind of came apart. But there's that scene where Wendy is running around terrified. She comes around a corner, and there's a man in a dog suit and another man on his knees at the bed.

AP Strange: 43:14

Yeah. And it makes no sense. She's just bewildered by this the sight of these two ghosts because she had there's no context for it. Now if you read the book, there is context for that. Yes.

AP Strange: 43:25

But isn't it way scarier to not know?

Chris Ernst: 43:29

It's it is. I mean, it totally is. Yeah. That's one of the most, like, for me, the iconic images from there is because it is so absolutely disturbing and, like, the pure surrealist sense of, like, shock to your system. What the is going on?

Chris Ernst: 43:45

Yeah.

AP Strange: 43:46

Exactly. Yeah. And and I had to wonder, like, what where did Kubrick come up with this? And then you read the book and you go, oh, there's a whole backstory about extortion and, like, you know, sexual assault and stuff. And Yeah.

AP Strange: 43:57

You're like, okay. Well, that's what that explains that. But it was way scarier before when I had no idea why there was a man in a dog suit.

Chris Ernst: 44:04

I wouldn't be surprised if that was totally, yeah, you know, intentional on this in the in the sense of Kubrick is that I think that and tick, you know, eyes wide shut, there's this inference of something that is never fully explained. And, you know, I guarantee you if I look through some of the interviews I have saved of his, he would talk about how that is going to provide a greater sense of fear and, you know, richer internal imaginative experience because you are creating whatever else it is that's in there. Even if it's just a sense of freaked outness, weirdness at the strangeness of it, you know, that that's the, you know, that's the perfect example of what well, you know, to go into our world here that we talk about a lot, the, you know, strange phenomena, high strangeness, you know, the sheer strangeness of what you're seeing that, you know, you can't place it, you can't contextualize it in anything. And that creates this Oz effect, you know, either a mini cinematic Oz effect or, you know, in the case of seeing, you know, meeting Bigfoot in the the wild, a a big red.

AP Strange: 45:15

Well, it's the uncanniness. It's uncanny. Yeah. I think and, yeah, it's it's perfect. He does that so well and I feel like watching that movie early on also kind of ruined horror movies for me because I love horror movies but horror movies are not generally good movies In the technical sense, they're not generally good movies.

AP Strange: 45:43

They're so you have a different barometer for horror. Usually, you're just like, okay, well, you know, it was good for a horror movie or a good horror movie, but horror movies generally are set apart cinematically. And but The Shining has the distinction of being a good movie and also a great horror movie.

Chris Ernst: 46:02

Yeah. I remember always being kind of, like, noticing that too because I was a big horror, you know, just like you as a huge horror buff, and they would lump it in. Like, if you read the eighties, you know, horror publications and not just Fangoria, but, like, anything, The Shining would always be in there because it was a classic horror movie. But I'd always be like, this is different. There's something that's like, this isn't the same as, you know, the original Blob or Right.

AP Strange: 46:30

Nightmare on or Friday

Chris Ernst: 46:32

Yeah. The Yeah. Yeah.

AP Strange: 46:36

It's a it's a cut above those, you know? Yeah. Yeah. But I like Nightmare

Chris Ernst: 46:41

on Elm Street, you know, the first one. Sure.

AP Strange: 46:44

Yeah. No. And I do love horror. I mean, I came to appreciate horror and explore it a lot more as I went along and and and this the contrast became starker as anytime I revisited The Shining I'm like this is just a masterpiece of a movie. Yes.

AP Strange: 46:59

And and anyway you look at it and I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that Stephen King eventually got to do his own version of The Shining for TV, and it is god awful. So I

Chris Ernst: 47:15

Yeah. You you gotta get Stephen Weber from Wings to play Jack Torrance.

AP Strange: 47:20

And Rebecca De Mornay.

Chris Ernst: 47:22

And Rebecca De Mornay and this horrible looking kid with like a bowl cut that was even worse than the original Danny.

AP Strange: 47:31

For some reason, I remember it being like Haley Joel Osman, but I don't think it was.

Chris Ernst: 47:35

No. He it was like another nineties or early two thousands kid actor that you would be like, oh, that one. Because he was a Right.

AP Strange: 47:42

You've seen him in stuff.

Chris Ernst: 47:43

He's like big chipmunk cheeks, but he was really like a kind of, you know, I mean, that's not gonna come across very well on radio, but he was he was a bit, he he seemed he would like he would be more comfortable in, like, a guest spot on different strokes or something.

AP Strange: 48:02

Right.

Chris Ernst: 48:04

Yeah. And Steven Weber did not have the gravitas to play Jack Torrance. Sorry.

AP Strange: 48:09

Yeah. And in the book, like, was topiary animals that come to life. Like Yep. Basically, they get attacked by bushes that are shaped like lions instead of a labyrinth and I'm sorry like the hedge maze is way better way better and and the tv movie topiary animals with early 90s CGI on a limited budget looks terrible So bad. So bad.

Chris Ernst: 48:38

And, hey, I love me some Rebecca Domorney. You know? Right. But yeah.

AP Strange: 48:43

Yeah. She couldn't save it. That was

Chris Ernst: 48:45

No.

AP Strange: 48:46

That was just a mistake. But they let Stephen King do all kinds of TV miniseries type stuff back then. And

Chris Ernst: 48:53

Yeah. His his his TV, you know, batting average is not great. You know? Right. This I feel like he's a really hard it's hard to cap it's some my personal feeling on Stephen King and his translation onto television or the big screen is that it's really hard to nail the tone of a King book without it being corny when you translate it to live action.

Chris Ernst: 49:23

It's just there's something that's like, it's corny when you're reading it, but it's like you're able to like run with it. There's something about, I think, the fact that like you're making up the corniness and the characters and how they exist in your head rather than having a character actor play it that, you know, makes it a lot more palatable and actually helps the narrative sometimes, whereas it doesn't help.

AP Strange: 49:46

Yeah. You know? Well, that's what I watched.

Chris Ernst: 49:49

No. Go ahead.

AP Strange: 49:50

That's why with King, and I've said this a million times, but I was saying it the other day, his short stories are some of my favorite king works. Like all of my favorite king works are short stories because he just lets himself go. He's like, I'm just gonna chase this weird idea I have no matter how silly it gets. I'll just do it. And like the like last year they came out with the monkey, the movie, the monkey based on the short story and it was goofy and stupid and I'm like, perfect.

AP Strange: 50:20

This is the king I love. Like this was I had so much fun watching that movie because it was just stupid and darkly for the same reason I like Creep Show. Like the marriage

Chris Ernst: 50:30

of him

AP Strange: 50:31

and Dirk Romero doing the old DC, like horror comics thing was just perfect.

Chris Ernst: 50:36

That totally worked. I'm with you. I even kind of like his cocaine fueled Maximum Overdrive

AP Strange: 50:42

because I'm a big fan of that just because it's a mess.

Chris Ernst: 50:45

Yeah. Yeah. Right? Like, that that the corniness or the the the, like, total strangeness of it. And, yeah, if people don't know, he was, like, he was, up to his eyeballs in cocaine directing that.

Chris Ernst: 50:56

That was his one and only.

AP Strange: 50:58

Claims he couldn't he doesn't remember directing it, I think. Right. And I also watched cameos. This cameo

Chris Ernst: 51:06

was cameo. It was cameo. He was starring role in Creep Show, as Yeah. Jordy used the name of the the guy who

AP Strange: 51:13

gets swamp creatures.

Chris Ernst: 51:15

Yeah. I did watch not to this will be the last Stephen King fan. But you know what I did watch that I had a greater appreciation for is I did watch the full director's cut Mike Flanagan of of Mike Flanagan's doctor Sleep. And I I I liked it better. You know?

Chris Ernst: 51:34

And I felt like it did get some some Stephen Kingness. Maybe it's just how I was feeling that night. But with the added stuff that Flanagan put in there, I think Flanagan comes kinda close to understanding how to do it in a serious way, how to represent King, but it still doesn't I mean, it doesn't fully work. But it's interesting. If anybody hasn't seen it, the director's cut of that film is Yeah.

AP Strange: 51:58

And it's a sequel to The Shining.

Chris Ernst: 52:00

Sequel to The Shining. Yes. Sequel to The Shining, which, you know, I read the book too. And it's I mean, it's, you know, again, like I in the Stephen King universe, you know, I thought I I didn't mind the book. I that book.

Chris Ernst: 52:14

I was okay with that one, I think.

AP Strange: 52:15

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that brings me to there were little nods to this in Doctor Sleep. I know that he was working in a nursing home, Danny, as a grown up, and there was a room numbered 217 that he was at, which was a reference to the room in in the book, which is 237 in the movie.

Chris Ernst: 52:35

Which is yes. And that's a big, you know, piece of that film Room 237 that came out talking about The Shining and Kubrick's, you know, hidden codes and stuff like that, which I think is really funny because I did pull this quote too, is that he was asked directly about that. And he said, yeah. The exterior of the hotel was filmed at this place called the Timberland Lodge in Mount Hood in Oregon. It didn't have a Room 217.

Chris Ernst: 53:03

It it had a Room 217, but no Room 237. And the hotel management asked him to change it because they didn't want people to not stay in Room 217 when they were at the hotel. Yeah. According to him, this is the this is why it was changed. You know, again, why 237?

Chris Ernst: 53:22

Sure. I guess you'd go back to the conspiracy of that, but it was a pretty prosaic reason why it got changed in the first place.

AP Strange: 53:28

But that movie that movie is wild. It is. Is that Rodney Asher Room 237?

Chris Ernst: 53:35

I believe that is. Yeah. There was another one that came out more recently that was not by him that's, like, called Beyond room two thirty seven or something, which is I I thought it was kind of a a mess. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 53:48

But, anyway, yes. Yeah.

AP Strange: 53:49

Yeah. Well, it's fascinating. And the way he does his documentary type movies is great because it's just the voices of the people that and and you're saying, like, montage in the pit. It's, like, kind of hypnotic and and you get drawn into the people's theories. But I mean, one of the big ones was that this was an admission that Kubrick faked the moon landing with because there are all these hidden clues because Danny's wearing the Apollo eleven sweater.

AP Strange: 54:16

Right. And, like, the pattern on the carpet is supposed to mirror the landing site somehow. Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 54:23

Yeah. I mean, hey. That's the one that if there's a conspiracy theory about him, that's the one I can get into because, you know, I can see a a, you know, a, some sort of filmmaker in this hypothetical scenario that has been taken in by the government and compromised in some way where they're, like, threatening his life, should he explain trying to leak those secrets in some way? Like, yes. I will come get behind you on exploring that one.

Chris Ernst: 54:51

That one for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

AP Strange: 54:53

Well, I always loved, like, the fake moon landing conspiracy theories because they were just like again, before recording, I said this, but I was talking to a friend of the show, Stephanie Quick, and she said that's a good example of conspiracy theories back when they were fun because, like, it almost is completely inconsequential. It's like, so what if we didn't land on the moon? You know, like Yeah. Let but I always kinda like the idea that they hired Kubrick to film fake moon landing shots in case something went wrong, and they could use it if they needed to, but they didn't end up needing to use it. I I

Chris Ernst: 55:32

was just gonna say that, like, that I actually totally believe. That totally sounds like a CIA, you know, thing that, like, the list would do back in the, yeah, sixties. 100%.

AP Strange: 55:43

Right. We need a backup video just in case because those rescues need to see that we landed on the moon and we'll figure it out later. Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 55:50

Exactly.

AP Strange: 55:51

Yeah. So that's I like that theory. But I mean, fact of the matter is that he was talking to people at NASA because he was doing heavy research for 2,001 A Space Odyssey.

Chris Ernst: 56:02

Well, that's where the that's where the conspiracy theory originally came from is that I, you know, and I I I remember and maybe you know, like, the specific place where it started. But as far as I have heard, it was just a general like, it was something that emerged from the fact that not only was he doing that, but that at the time, the stuff that was in 2001 looked so good. They, you know, that that it was a combination of those things that kind of started in the zeitgeist. People were saying that, yeah, it was a

AP Strange: 56:33

Well, Well, I think he had originally been contacted by people. This is something I heard a long time ago, so I have no idea how reliable it is. But I think he had originally been contacted by people from the government based on the shots of the planes refueling in the beginning of Doctor Strange Love because they thought that looked so realistic and was so revealing of how planes work that they wanted to know how he knew that. And the answer is he did his homework because he always did like he did intensive research and wanted everything to look as accurate as possible.

Chris Ernst: 57:05

Even if it's just Exactly right.

AP Strange: 57:07

Just like a air ballet of these two planes refueling in mid air. Right. Yeah. So Yep. Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 57:13

Yep. About funny. I mean, like, when you watch that understanding, it's, like, such an obvious train in a tunnel type. Like, you know, you got the the love song going on behind it. I didn't get that when I was, like, probably 12 and saw them.

AP Strange: 57:27

Oh, yeah. The innuendo of

Chris Ernst: 57:28

The innuendo.

AP Strange: 57:29

That that was that was important to Kubrick to have as much of that as possible. That's why he got Terry Southern to rework the script. Mhmm. I had read that toward the end of his life, he actually toyed with the idea of directing a porn as well.

Chris Ernst: 57:46

I would not be surprised. I mean, he's like, you know, he was, eyes wide shut is certainly trying to, like, exercise some, sexual frustration and and, you know, demons there. I think eyes wide shut as opposed to other people that, you know, think it's some people that think it's about Illuminati. I think it's about, like, it's strange and and, you know, the difficulties of relationships.

AP Strange: 58:09

Well, that's what the novel was about. Right? Yeah. Exactly.

Chris Ernst: 58:12

That's what yeah. Trauma villain or whatever it's called.

AP Strange: 58:14

Yeah yeah and but I mean I think maybe he was he probably was very aware of all those conspiracy theories and wanted to like really mess with people by having like a secret society movie Be his swan song in a way.

Chris Ernst: 58:31

I would not doubt that. Yeah. Trolling at the highest level. Absolutely. Yeah.

AP Strange: 58:37

What do you suppose the movie would have been like had his cut been released? Because I don't think anybody's ever really seen his cut except for that one premiere that he did before he died. He died like the day after or something like that.

Chris Ernst: 58:50

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I can't remember exactly what was cut out of it at point, honestly. Do you remember what they like, what

AP Strange: 59:00

they From what

Chris Ernst: 59:00

I understand of scenes?

AP Strange: 59:02

The story the story that I heard was just that there were some more graphic sexual elements that they cut out, they just trimmed for time. There wasn't anything that was consequential to the plot that got dropped. But I didn't know if you had maybe some insights or thoughts about what might have been.

Chris Ernst: 59:21

I don't. You know, I I can only speculate that, yes, that probably happened more because the film was at the time time that it was made in the nineties. I feel like there was, you know, greater editorial control being exercised by the studios. But I completely, believe that there was more graphic sexuality in the sense that I think he would probably want to, you know, take it to an extreme. And that was very much put in the same way that you have the violence in the full metal jacket or, the violence in, clockwork orange, which I can feel that, like, ultraviolent.

Chris Ernst: 01:00:03

You know? I I I have no doubt that he would have done the same thing, but they probably wanted it to not be you know, this there's probably you know, maybe it was edited for time. Maybe it was a studio. I don't know.

AP Strange: 01:00:14

Well, had mentioned this before too that that was he was really pissing off the studios, though, It was so far over budget and that's so far beyond the scale of time that he had I had mentioned this when I talked about it on the show before, but I had a subscription to Entertainment Weekly at the time, and they were doing like it was almost like a hostage situation where they're numbering the days that Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman couldn't leave because they're doing all these retreats for him. Yeah. But, yeah, it's wild.

Chris Ernst: 01:00:47

Yeah. I can't imagine that set. That must have been, like, the egos on that set just between Cruz and Kubrick. Either that or it was great. Either that or was great because they were both, you know, completely committed to doing whatever it took.

Chris Ernst: 01:01:02

Right. Cruz is insane, but I feel like he is insanely committed to projects that he this is part of his insanity.

AP Strange: 01:01:10

I think that was before people knew that Cruz was insane too. Yeah. Yes. That was before he had, like, public meltdowns and, like, I was going

Chris Ernst: 01:01:18

Couch jumping.

AP Strange: 01:01:19

Right. And going to bat for Scientology, like, very loudly. And yeah. And, I mean, I think that was part of what destroyed their marriage to Cruz and Kidman because

Chris Ernst: 01:01:29

he

AP Strange: 01:01:30

would he was supposed to cut his in laws out because they were suppressives.

Chris Ernst: 01:01:35

SPs, man.

AP Strange: 01:01:37

Suppressive people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Scientology is a whole other weird thing.

AP Strange: 01:01:44

Isn't it, though?

Chris Ernst: 01:01:45

Yeah. Especially where it comes from when you think about Parsons and him doing sex magic rituals.

AP Strange: 01:01:53

Right.

Chris Ernst: 01:01:54

HP h not HPL. That's Howard Philip Lovecraft. What do they call him in Scientology? It's they they use his initials.

AP Strange: 01:02:04

Yeah. LRH.

Chris Ernst: 01:02:06

LRH. Yes. Good.

AP Strange: 01:02:07

Yeah. I was, like, thinking, like,

Chris Ernst: 01:02:09

a large headron collider. A lot of acronyms in my head right there.

AP Strange: 01:02:15

Yeah. Yeah. He stole he

Chris Ernst: 01:02:18

stole Parsons woman and his money, and he ran off in a boat.

AP Strange: 01:02:23

Yeah. Yeah. But then Parsons conjured a storm and washed him back to shore. So That's right. Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:02:31

You don't mess with the weather magician. There's a reason to do it. Yeah. No. But yeah.

AP Strange: 01:02:39

Yeah. But, yeah. I I always had to wonder if, like, that played a part in the casting decision. Like, I can't imagine Kubrick suffered Scientology very well. You know?

AP Strange: 01:02:55

He didn't seem like somebody that would have would have tolerated that kind of craziness. You know?

Chris Ernst: 01:03:02

I I don't think he did. And I don't think I I I'm sure, you know, when they were making that film, it was still, you know, something that was, you know, maybe known, but nobody really cared. They were all working. I mean, all of the peep think of all the people that Kubrick worked with during his life, you know, plenty of people that had probably had some really weird beliefs and proclivities. I think he was interested in working with, you know, Kidman and Cruz because of that dynamic of, like, you know, here are these two really accomplished actors who are also a couple.

Chris Ernst: 01:03:32

What can I do with that if I'm making this film that's about sort of, you know, like, you know, adult sexual interaction and, you know, dynamics and stuff like that?

AP Strange: 01:03:44

Yeah. Right.

Chris Ernst: 01:03:45

Which I understand from, like, the artistic point of view. That's like that is very I think that very much is the the Kubrick type of thing. Yeah. I pulled this another quote from one of the interviews for him where, somebody asks him, this is, I think, from, like, the late eighties. They said, you know, of course, there's a danger that some audiences may misunderstand what you say and think that one can dispense altogether with reason falling into the clouded mysticism, which is currently so popular in America.

Chris Ernst: 01:04:15

I think it's funny that they're know, this must have been in England, and he talks about the clouded mysticism in America. And Kubrick's answer is people can misinterpret almost anything so that it coincide coincides with views they already hold. They take from art what they already believe. I mean, this is a classic thing, and I wonder how many people have ever had their views about anything important changed by a work of art. And I I think that in many ways that kinda sums up his his approach to doing things is that, you know, he's, like Lynch, you know, Lynch who goes to the movies and comes out and people wanna talk about it, and he says, well, we just did talk about it.

Chris Ernst: 01:04:52

Talking about it was watching a movie. You know? Right. He wants people to Kubrick or is hoping people, you know, engage with his films as multilayered pieces of art. And he understands at the same time that like art, people can misinterpret it because, you know, that's part of what sometimes making a great artwork is.

Chris Ernst: 01:05:14

And sometimes that's why it's great, is because people interpret it in their own way, and so they latch onto it, it becomes something that is Yeah. You know. Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:05:23

Yeah. Because art isn't a conversation between the artist and the medium. It's a group conversation between the artist and the medium and you. That's why it's called the medium. Like that.

Chris Ernst: 01:05:33

Yeah. There you go. The clue would be proud of you.

AP Strange: 01:05:39

Yeah. Well, I don't I don't know. I I feel like I shouldn't lecture people on our listeners because I feel like a lot of them get it. But I feel like it's worthwhile because especially in this day and age where we have AI and people are trying to justify the use of AI as an art form or as a tool to make art. And you're just like, okay, the thing is you're calling it artificial intelligence and intelligence means one thing, but intellect means something else.

AP Strange: 01:06:12

And consciousness is yet something different. And the thing is the difference is like people have intellect. People have consciousness and people have spirit and machines have neither. So that kind of brings me around to what do you suppose AI would have been like had the movie Artificial Intelligence? Because Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:06:32

Yeah. You know, that was Kubrick was working toward that for a long time and of course touched on or, you know, explicitly explored artificial intelligence with 2001. But he really wanted to make this the the centerpiece of a movie, which ultimately did get made by Spielberg. And I I I don't like it. I I wanna know what it would have been like if it was Kubrick.

Chris Ernst: 01:06:57

I I do too. Oh, completely. I feel like I mean, it for one, it would be absolutely the opposite in terms of, like, not being modeling. You know? Like, none of that.

Chris Ernst: 01:07:09

And I like I really like some stuff that Spielberg does. I just you know, I think the sentimentality that he brought to it did not do service to what it was supposed to be. Right. I would have liked to see a lot more weird speculation like the going forward in the future. Know, I don't know.

Chris Ernst: 01:07:26

I feel like there would, like, at the very end, again, spoilers for, you know, an old movie is at the very end, the AI bought Haley Joel Osman, you know, entity basically like goes into hibernation and then is thousands of years in the future gets resurrected by artificial intelligence, life forms that now control Earth or or something along those lines. And I don't know. I part of me is hoping there would have been more, like, inference to that kind of thing without it being as explicit as Spielberg made it. Like, Spielberg was both explicit about it and also very sentimental. And I think it would have been neither of those things, which really could have been very cool.

AP Strange: 01:08:11

Right. Yeah. When you were talking earlier about how powerful it is to not explain and leave it open to interpretation. That's what sprung to mind was AI because Spielberg beats you over the head with it. It it Completely.

AP Strange: 01:08:25

He spells it out for you. He just wants to make sure you don't misinterpret. And it's like, no, man, you got to leave it out there. You got to leave that out there for people to decide because it has to do with the audience that you're targeting, I guess. And also just having faith in your viewers to be able to keep up and do their own kind of thinking about it.

AP Strange: 01:08:51

Right?

Chris Ernst: 01:08:51

Yeah,

AP Strange: 01:08:52

I mean, I knock on Spielberg because Spielberg is great for what he does. Like I'll always love Jaws, Close Encounters, even Jurassic Park and movies like that because that's what he does really well.

Chris Ernst: 01:09:06

Yeah. He's so good at certain things too from a cinematic point of view, like the Spielberg Wonder is really an amazing type of shot. The one where he's able to follow the action in such a narrative way that it's, like, seamless at the same time it pushes the story forward. It's great. Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 01:09:22

But, I mean, even in something like Close Encounters to the Third Kind, which I think is you're seeing a much more Spielberg take on a numinous, subject like extraterrestrials or AI, the the legend that I heard, and I can't tell you where I sourced this from, but I'm I I heard that when he was consulting with or consulted with Valet, who if people know the the lore, like Francois Truffaut, who was a French filmmaker, plays the role in Close Encounters with the Third Time that is basically a stand in for Jacques Valet, is that Valet did speak to Spielberg about the fact that he didn't necessarily think that these were extraterrestrials, and that these were, you know, entities from another planet, and that Kubrick was like I'm sorry. And that Spielberg was like, I don't wanna deal with that at all. They're aliens. They're from outer space.

AP Strange: 01:10:11

Yeah. They're just aliens. Yeah. Yeah. Which is curious because, I mean, now he's revisited it with disclosure day and Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:10:19

I I'm not in a hurry to see that, so I still haven't seen it.

Chris Ernst: 01:10:23

But I'm not either. I mean, I I hate to say it, but the adoption of disclosure and, the the UAP thing by certain factions of American society has really turned my stomach to paying attention to it. And the fact that he uses disclosure like, if disclosure was still Stephen Greer, count me in. Not that I support Stephen Greer, but

AP Strange: 01:10:45

But it's entertaining at least. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:10:49

Especially because I can't hear Steven Greer's name without thinking of Jeremy Vaney's bets on the old Perotovia. Yes. Oh, yes. But yeah, yeah. I mean, it would have been really interesting.

AP Strange: 01:11:07

And also, I mean, I'm kind of glad that Kubrick isn't alive to see how AI is being rolled out now.

Chris Ernst: 01:11:16

Yeah. I mean, I did some research on it this summer that I was tasked to do because all the, you know, the colleges are kind of freaking out about what to do and, you know, I didn't mind looking into it because I find it interesting. And from an economic and business model standpoint, I don't know, man, it might be gone real soon. But the problem is too, is that like all of our major tech companies, and I want to say like 90% of the American economy is tied up in it right now. So you also kinda don't want it to crash.

Chris Ernst: 01:11:51

But the technology is so atrociously bad, and not getting any better, and the the money is being lost consistently, by each of the companies running it. If you follow the numbers, I I'm hoping to some degree that there's some sort of creative, revelation we come to, because of the fact that something crumbles without completely destroying our economy.

AP Strange: 01:12:16

Right. Yeah. But I mean, I almost feel like something apocalyptic economically needs to happen in order for people to really stand up and be like, okay, what the fuck people? Let's do something about it because I mean, people, I don't know how much can we really take. But also, I will recommend the listeners, listeners just go to, Ed Citron's.

Chris Ernst: 01:12:40

I would say the same thing. Yeah. Listen to Ed Citron and Corey Doctorow. Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:12:47

Yeah. Any episode of Better Offline will give you an idea of where the economics are at with this, and it's really just three three or four companies handing each other the same couple billions of dollars and losing money hand over fist.

Chris Ernst: 01:13:02

100%. He does a great job of breaking down all this stuff and, you know, not that I didn't trust him, but it all, you know, it's backed up by tons of facts.

AP Strange: 01:13:10

Right. Yeah. So it's a bubble and it's scary. But as you rightly say too, the the technology is just bad. And I see these apologists online every day and I don't argue with them for the same reason that I don't argue with the average MAGA person because it's just an article of faith at this point.

AP Strange: 01:13:28

It's just people. It's a cult like idea that does it actually not too different from the disclosure mindset.

Chris Ernst: 01:13:36

No, not at all. Not at all.

AP Strange: 01:13:38

This reality is they have

Chris Ernst: 01:13:40

yeah, are powerful and influential, you know, salespeople and marketing teams that can convince your boss that they have this technology that can replace you, which it can't, but they're good at convincing your boss that it can.

AP Strange: 01:13:55

Yeah. And they're then your boss wants to convince you to use it all the time so that the model can train on what it is you do so that you're no longer It's like digging your own grave. Yes,

Chris Ernst: 01:14:10

it is a strange, strange world we live in. Very interesting times. But and I think Kubrick probably well, he probably would have been disgusted, but he'd also would be rich and living in London and would probably maybe would make a funny film about it. I don't know.

AP Strange: 01:14:25

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, he was very good at pointing out the ridiculousness of people. Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 01:14:35

Need more Kubricks right now. Like, you know, not that anybody's supporting that kind of stuff being made, but, yeah. That's the kind of stuff we need.

AP Strange: 01:14:45

Well,

Chris Ernst: 01:14:45

am comes out of contra conflict. Yeah. Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:14:48

Yeah. Am hopeful because, I mean, you you briefly mentioned The Backrooms earlier and I watching that movie, I could tell that the young filmmaker and he is young. I mean, the dude's like 22 or something like that.

Chris Ernst: 01:15:02

Totally.

AP Strange: 01:15:03

Yeah. Really did an outstanding job for the with that movie, but I could really tell yeah. That And I could tell from the framing of some of the shots and just the way things kinda look and felt that, like, he must be a tremendous Kubrick fan. This is very Kubrick inspired. Absolutely.

AP Strange: 01:15:19

And so it's good to see, you know, and I'm like, if people are taking more chances on on younger directors, untried people spending less money to make the movies and just letting them have at it, just leave them alone and let them make a movie, you know, like that. That's that's what audiences respond to. Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 01:15:37

100%. Yeah. And it it really is good to see stuff like that in Obsession, which I didn't I didn't like as much, but I thought it was well done. And I can understand why it was popular. And it's like a very palatable, you know, like it's a good, you know, like poppy bubblegum horror movie, I guess, in that sense that I can see resonating with younger people.

Chris Ernst: 01:16:00

Right. And

AP Strange: 01:16:00

And similarly, it was a

Chris Ernst: 01:16:02

smaller cheap under a million dollars. Yeah. Which is amazing. And even the big stuff, I mean, you know, there are prob huge problems with the Marvel Corporation and Disney and, you know, with Giant Studios. But, you know, it's great to see The Odyssey make so much money because that is, you know, say what you want about liking Nolan.

Chris Ernst: 01:16:24

That is a very much a cinematic film that is not using AI, you know, as far as as far as we know. I know a lot of studios are doing stuff behind the scenes. And despite the fact that, you know, Spider Man, is, you know, a a big studio movie that I'm sure there's some, AI embedded in the CGI, it's essentially just a big studio blockbuster superhero movie, and I would still rather have those be happening than AI slop, honestly. So if those make money and can have people maybe get more interested in both the indie artists like you see with Obsession and Backrooms. And then, you know, big directors, like, give more.

Chris Ernst: 01:17:02

If you're gonna put a lot of money towards something, give it to somebody to do a big real cinema piece you wanna see in theaters like Nolan, you know, or make quality superhero films.

AP Strange: 01:17:13

Yeah. And I've said this before too that it would you know, it took having somebody that started out in Troma to really revive the DC titles that are out there. You know?

Chris Ernst: 01:17:25

No doubt. Yes. Yeah. All props to trauma. The hill in the hole is on trauma.

Chris Ernst: 01:17:30

Yes.

AP Strange: 01:17:30

Oh, that's great.

Chris Ernst: 01:17:31

Bill Bill and my, weirdo midnight movie through trauma, which is a lovely thing.

AP Strange: 01:17:37

I didn't even didn't even occur to me when I mentioned that. But, yes. Hell of

Chris Ernst: 01:17:41

trauma is great, man. Trauma like was, yeah, but we could, we could do probably, an episode on trauma and how many people it has influenced and, you know, brought out,

AP Strange: 01:17:51

we should. Yeah. I've I've mentioned trauma on the show before, and I'm like, should I do a trauma episode? Because that would also mean I'd have to rewatch some

Chris Ernst: 01:18:00

some of it. Sergeant Kubrick man is calling your name.

AP Strange: 01:18:06

I I did watch toxic Avenger not that long ago because I was like, I don't feel like I remember everything that happened in this movie. I just remember a bunch of weird bullshit that happened, and then I watched it and said, no. I remembered all of that. Forget it. Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 01:18:22

Yeah. Toxic Avenger.

AP Strange: 01:18:24

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, that's where we come back to that whole, low brow thing that is still good, meeting the high brow and and and somewhere in the middle there, you know? So is is it safe to say there are elements of the hill and the hole that are Kubrick inspired?

AP Strange: 01:18:46

Cause I can see that.

Chris Ernst: 01:18:47

100. I mean, yeah, Bill, you know, is a huge Kubrick fan. So am I. You know, it's one of those things that's like baked into it. You know?

Chris Ernst: 01:18:56

Right. We had a lot of references, you know, for that. But, yeah, Kubrick, mean, just like the the use of the the like wide shots. I mean, I I don't wanna speak for Bill, but I feel like when we were doing it, the use of like master wide shots where there's this sort of, don't wanna say artificiality to it, but almost like a tableau sense. You know, I thought of Kubrick certainly.

Chris Ernst: 01:19:21

And anytime I use one point perspective, I think about Kubrick.

AP Strange: 01:19:24

Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's the scenes where they're, like, in that lodge too that I

Chris Ernst: 01:19:31

Well, that yeah. And I'm sure Bill would probably have way more to talk about from, like, know, being being the the, screenwriter for it too. Like, very much yeah. Yeah. Like, Doctor Strange Love, you know, or the idea of, like, the the the this sort of wry take on the cult society.

Chris Ernst: 01:19:48

And I know for a fact that Go Rightly was thinking about that as his you know, in his role, he was thinking about Strange Love because we I feel like we talked about it or it was mentioned at one point. But yeah. Oh, totally. 100%. Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:20:06

Yeah. I can't believe I've never had Go Right, Leon. I need to do that something about that. He he's

Chris Ernst: 01:20:11

a yeah. I mean, I haven't talked to that guy in a while, but, yeah, he's, yeah, he's he is a fountain, a fountain and a fountain of knowledge. So much. He knows about so much cool stuff, so many great stories and and and anecdotes and secret things that he'll probably will never tell us.

AP Strange: 01:20:31

Yeah. Well, I've been a big fan of his for a long time, and I don't think I've I've never really spoken to him. So I I I'll have to do something about that. Yeah. I mean, I coming I here.

Chris Ernst: 01:20:40

Yeah. Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:20:42

Yeah. He's a cool dude.

Chris Ernst: 01:20:44

I I feel like he did something. Oh, yeah. Well, he did his the saucer spooks and kooks movie came out last year, I think.

AP Strange: 01:20:50

Right. Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 01:20:51

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I was like, what?

Chris Ernst: 01:20:53

And then he has a new book, I think, that he come out. Anyway, that's a great book. Saucer spooks and kooks. If people haven't read that, it's a really

AP Strange: 01:20:59

great Since that one came out, he did a a whole James Shelby Downard thing.

Chris Ernst: 01:21:06

That's what he did. Okay. Duh. I mean, I guess, I was even at a I was at this conference as I hold up my T shirt that has strange realities where he talked about that. Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 01:21:15

That's what happens to my brain as I get older. Yes. I forget things completely. Yeah. He had a very cool James Shelby Downard thing that he did.

Chris Ernst: 01:21:22

Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:21:22

Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're we're getting way off topic now. But We are. Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:21:31

I like, I did want to get back to that Room 237 thing just because, that that was that was a real, there was a guy that was doing that all the time. Crypto crew bought a website that was called crypto cubrology. That's a hard Yes. Thing to

Chris Ernst: 01:21:50

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:21:50

He was tracking the instances of two thirty seven in movies like all over the place and and it was kind of really odd, but then I kind of got obsessed with it too. And Lauren Coleman was way into it and he was posting a ton of stuff about it and writing whole blog posts. And it was funny because people were, like, getting mad at him. I remember, like, on Twitter, people would be, like, commenting, like, when are you gonna leave this childish nonsense alone and get back to talking about Bigfoot, you know? Like

Chris Ernst: 01:22:20

Yeah. That's the stuff that I'm most interested in. I wanna hear Lauren talk about, like, I don't, you know, I I mean, I guess I've never been super interested in Bigfoot, but Lauren's synchro mysticism, Twilight language stuff. That's the fun stuff.

AP Strange: 01:22:33

I know. Love that stuff. Yeah. He and I.

Chris Ernst: 01:22:36

That's the good that's the good synchro mysticism. You know, that's the stuff that doesn't necessarily take itself too seriously, but as, you know, really like getting deep into the toponymy and place names and just pointing it out, like finding these patterns. It's very cool.

AP Strange: 01:22:51

Yeah. I've had the opportunity to talk with him sometimes about that. And I actually tipped him off to some two thirty sevens in movies that he ended up he ended up writing about, which was great. One of them was at a really bizarre movie from the thirties or forties. It was called The Octopus.

AP Strange: 01:23:12

I I it was like a monster movie that has like a comedian in it. Uh-huh.

Chris Ernst: 01:23:18

Yep. I know what you're talking about. Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:23:20

Yeah. My friend Jeff had me watch it. And right at the end there's this bizarre scene and there's a hospital room and they open the door and it says 02:37 on the outside that was like oh and I like had my friend stop the movie and took a picture and sent it to Lauren and he ended up doing a blog post it was pretty that's But I got way sucked into that. Like, not that I ascribed any huge meaning to it. But like you said, it's fun synchronicism stuff.

AP Strange: 01:23:47

Just finding where it appears and like running with it and being like, okay, well, weird. What does this mean? There's that number again.

Chris Ernst: 01:23:54

Yeah. Or it's not not even trying to figure out what it means as much as just like noticing it. And, you know, I think that, you know, when you start ascribing too much meaning to it sometimes, but I there was one that I remember coming across too. And again, I don't remember where, but it was connecting the two thirty seven thing essentially to 23 and being like, okay, 23 or two thirty seven is twenty three and seven. Like, as two separate occult numbers that pop up everywhere.

Chris Ernst: 01:24:23

Like, it's it has it is a not I don't know what I don't remember what why, but it was like, okay. You can connect those things as well. Right? Oh, you

AP Strange: 01:24:30

can connect. Yeah. Yeah. You can connect it to so many things. People have connected it to the Robert Anton Wilson Sirius signal because that was on July 23.

AP Strange: 01:24:42

That's twenty three seven if you're doing the date that way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's wild.

AP Strange: 01:24:51

I mean, was one that I found that I don't think anybody had caught, which was in the movie Poltergeist because if you're watching, you know, when Carol Anne sitting in front of the TV and static and everything, There was a sloppy edit where the clock, the the digital clock above the TV that's on the VCR shows a different time every time it cuts back to her. Right. Just want Because to. Yep. Right.

AP Strange: 01:25:20

And one of the times is 02:37. But at the very end of the movie, when they're when they check into a motel, check into Room 217. And as the camera's pulling away, it goes all the way to Room 237 before it pulls completely away from the

Chris Ernst: 01:25:36

Woah. Well, you know, I would bet bottom dollar that was Toby Hooper being like, wink wink. You know?

AP Strange: 01:25:45

But it was around the same time that that's the shiny came out. It was within a year or two. You're right. It would have been maybe

Chris Ernst: 01:25:51

I always forget how early Poltergeist is.

AP Strange: 01:25:53

It's like 1982.

Chris Ernst: 01:25:55

Yeah. Yeah. Right. It is it is really I I yes. Okay.

Chris Ernst: 01:25:58

No. It's not. That's great synchromaticism then. But from the standpoint of filmmakers, like, I know I'm always gonna do stuff like put Easter eggs in there. It's really just like it's like wink, wink, nod, nod, you know?

AP Strange: 01:26:08

Right.

Chris Ernst: 01:26:08

But that's really funny. I did not know that about Poltergeist. That is true. That is truly that is a strange coincidence.

AP Strange: 01:26:15

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, anyway, that stuff is really fun. I don't know much about the guy that ran the whole crypto Kubrick blog, but it was always fun to check-in with.

AP Strange: 01:26:28

Like, I never really direct. I was more I talked to Lauren about it, but like.

Chris Ernst: 01:26:34

Yeah,

AP Strange: 01:26:34

yeah. That's very cool. And Lauren stuff. But but there was one guy that I think he might have been the guy that was in the movie talking about the moon landing stuff. I don't know.

AP Strange: 01:26:43

Yeah. But yeah, But yeah, synchromaticism, man. It's a trip. And if if you if you do it with a light heart and don't don't ascribe some huge conspiratorial meaning behind it all. Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 01:26:58

Right. Or do it like Stephanie Quick does it and do crazy experiments with it, which is, you know, fun and seems to always produce strange results.

AP Strange: 01:27:11

It absolutely does. Yeah. Listeners, go find ghost dog is a mystery box. Stephaniequick.blog.home, I think, blog's about whatever. Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:27:23

People know Stephanie on this show.

Chris Ernst: 01:27:24

Yeah. That's why I figured. Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:27:26

Yeah. But yeah, well, okay. So we've been talking for a bit, but we did kind of run right past full metal jacket. We did. Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:27:36

Gotta kind of mention that one a little more. Yeah, because thinking about that one, was thinking like, I mean, I'm not alone in thinking this, but it's really two movies. You know?

Chris Ernst: 01:27:46

Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:27:48

It's two movies in a row. Right? You know? Yeah. And I feel like the tone shifts so dramatically.

AP Strange: 01:27:57

The boot camp sequence to me is the really that sticks out way more in my memory. The second half of the movie, well, I don't know. It's about equal, but they're just very different.

Chris Ernst: 01:28:11

No. They are very different. And it's like, I think, you know, yeah. One has, one is almost like I'm trying to think of the name for, like, what that type of, well, it's like, you know, an army movie in the sense that you're like, there's this this training, you know, type of, thing to it. I

AP Strange: 01:28:33

there's gotta bottle like like a bottle episode. Think.

Chris Ernst: 01:28:37

Yes. Bottle episode. Thank you. Yeah. That's probably a good way to describe it.

Chris Ernst: 01:28:40

Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:28:40

Completely contained within the the barracks and the training camp. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 01:28:45

Yeah. So It's like an extended training montage bottle episode type thing. But it's not a mon I I or at least that's how I think of it in my head. Like, when I think back on it, it it exists as, like, I I cut it into a montage in my head. And then you have the second half, which is the, you know, the, depression insanity.

Chris Ernst: 01:29:05

Right. Yeah. Coming to fruition part. Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:29:08

Right. Yeah. And I mean, it's very much. Well, you know, it's the Vietnam War. It's bad.

Chris Ernst: 01:29:14

Yeah. Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:29:16

But I mean, Matthew Modine's character, that's it's all about his arc, I guess, Joker, because it it's kind of fun and games until the culmination of of the boot camp part of it. And, you know, I gotta add spoilers for a movie that's 50 years old. But

Chris Ernst: 01:29:36

Right.

AP Strange: 01:29:38

Vincent D'Onofrio loses it. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 01:29:43

So Yeah. Vincent D'Onofrio in one of his, like, fur was that his breakout role? I think

AP Strange: 01:29:49

it was. It's pretty early for him.

Chris Ernst: 01:29:51

Yeah. Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:29:51

Yeah. But well, that that I mean, he does a fine example. Probably one of the best examples of of what's been noted as the Kubrick stare.

Chris Ernst: 01:30:03

Yes. Yes.

AP Strange: 01:30:06

Yeah. Which which, you know, that's just where, you know, the the character has completely lost their mind because they're doing this kind of head tilted forward and looking up. See it in Jack Deckelson in The Shining when he's looking out the window in that one scene.

Chris Ernst: 01:30:23

Yeah. It's like the the the person that they're almost looking straight down the barrel of the camera, but like it's not quite. And they're like, yeah, the head is tilted down. The eyes are kind of like arching like up through the brow. It's a very, it's like sinister.

Chris Ernst: 01:30:41

It's almost reminds me of, and I don't know, I mean, it very well could be a reference to Hitchcock, but it's very much like that last shot of Anthony Perkins in Psycho. Yeah. If anybody remembers that, where he's like in the holding cell and it's this, in his head, he's talking to himself and he's like, they don't know about me. I wouldn't hurt a fly. See, like a fly lands on his hand.

Chris Ernst: 01:31:05

And he's like, I won't kill it, then they'll know. I'm a I'm a good person or something like that. And it's like the the looking I've always equated the that with the the Kubrick stare too or maybe he was influenced by it.

AP Strange: 01:31:20

Yeah. And I mean, I think you see it a little bit in, like, film noirs. Like, I feel like there's some old, like, monster movies where that's the way they're kind of looking at the camera and stuff. And yeah, but it's another like visual rhyme that Kubrick does in his movies. That it's like a hallmark of them along with the other kinds of shots he does that.

Chris Ernst: 01:31:41

That's a lot of that visual rhyming. Right. It was Full Metal Jacket two the first was that the first time that Arlie Ermey was in because he's become such a stereotypical trope of the drill sergeant.

AP Strange: 01:31:55

Right.

Chris Ernst: 01:31:55

Which he was. Like, he was a drill sergeant. Like, they basically did, like, casting. I don't know if he was a character actor before that. He might have been done, small parts, but, this was, like, his breakthrough role too.

AP Strange: 01:32:09

Yeah. Yeah. And then he was pretty much typecast as that. But from what I understand, they didn't really script him as much. They just let him do his a drill sergeant thing.

Chris Ernst: 01:32:20

Yes. That's exactly what they did. Yeah. Yeah. And people don't know who Arlie Ermey is.

Chris Ernst: 01:32:24

Like, think of the guy who plays drill sergeants. He's, like, got the square jaw, big eyebrows, like, gray hair, and he does the, like, you you stinking pansy or, you know, whatever the that thing, like, that

AP Strange: 01:32:38

Arley I'm not comfortable saying out loud, but, you know, exactly. Exactly. Completely demeaning bullshit. Yeah. Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:32:49

Yeah. I mean, because he had a lot of roles like that and then, you know, I think he had a well, he branched out a little bit, but he he had a long career and it was everything from the Toy Story movies where he plays the army man

Chris Ernst: 01:33:06

Right. Yes.

AP Strange: 01:33:08

Do you like the Texas Chainsaw Massacre remakes where he's the he's the cook.

Chris Ernst: 01:33:13

He's yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's a great character actor. Like, I, you know, I I feel like

AP Strange: 01:33:20

he's about it. He was he was he was pretty great. I always like seeing him. Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 01:33:24

I feel like he was one of those guys that, ended up becoming an actor and didn't, you know, think he he wasn't aspiring to be one. So he really had a great career because he wasn't too concerned about it and being typecast. So,

AP Strange: 01:33:37

like Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 01:33:38

You know, throughout until he was really old, he kept on playing drill sergeants.

AP Strange: 01:33:42

Yeah. Yeah. It's almost like those characters that, like, have a look, So they'll always have a job, you know?

Chris Ernst: 01:33:49

Yeah. I wish there were, we need, we need more guys with weird faces like we had in the seventies that are back as character actors.

AP Strange: 01:33:58

Yeah. Like a Rondo Hutton kind of guy. Mhmm.

Chris Ernst: 01:34:03

Yeah. Totally.

AP Strange: 01:34:06

There's so much more we could get into just because like Barry Lyndon is its its own thing. That's.

Chris Ernst: 01:34:11

Well, there's. Yeah. And Lolita, you know, which has become you know, it's another one of those films that I think it's completely misinterpreted. You know? Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 01:34:26

Gosh. What else? Now

AP Strange: 01:34:27

That's why I always felt like I needed the context of the Nabokov book, and I never got around to reading it. So Right.

Chris Ernst: 01:34:34

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't either.

Chris Ernst: 01:34:36

But I'm trying to think if there's anything else that's, like, really important.

AP Strange: 01:34:40

Well, I mean, you have his early films too,

Chris Ernst: 01:34:42

which Spartacus that he worked on.

AP Strange: 01:34:44

Before that, The Killing and The Killing. Yeah. Paths of Glory. Yep. Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:34:51

So that and and and, know, those are those are definitely

Chris Ernst: 01:34:56

I admit I probably only watched them once. I, you know, they were good, but I I I even it was a while ago. It's hard for me to remember. Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:35:04

Right. Yeah. Yeah. But, well, yeah, and asparagus is pretty iconic.

Chris Ernst: 01:35:10

Mhmm.

AP Strange: 01:35:11

My understanding with that was that it was already, like, mostly made and they brought him in as a ringer at the last minute

Chris Ernst: 01:35:17

to That's what Put

AP Strange: 01:35:19

it all together.

Chris Ernst: 01:35:20

Yeah. Yep. Right. Yeah. Similar to other like that.

Chris Ernst: 01:35:25

Well, it wasn't as big a mess as the Frankenheimer, Doctor. Moreau, Richard Stanley, Doctor. Moreau, but it was. Right. He came in as like a jobber.

Chris Ernst: 01:35:33

And it's great when you get like a when you get a scab director that is, you know, a wonderful auteur. Sometimes you can get something interesting.

AP Strange: 01:35:42

Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't know.

AP Strange: 01:35:46

It's just a wonder wonderful oeuvre for any any film director to to have an

Chris Ernst: 01:35:52

Totally. And I think, again, the thing that, you know, one of the things that you and I find from, you know, talking to you about this, the most interesting about it that I think is important is that, you know, he's dealing on the same way that Lynch does with, you know, film and art and cinema as this, you know, tool to explore the human condition and something that, you know, that is meant not to tie things up in a pretty package at the end of the day, but something that you want to stick with you that's gonna enrich your life by putting questions in your head and making you think about things in a way that you didn't before. And whether or he was trying to do that, maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. But, you know, some artists, they have the ability to make work that impacts people in that way. And I always think it's important to pay attention, to those artists because they can tell you something about the world we live in.

AP Strange: 01:36:48

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't have said it better, myself and I mean, that's just, that's what is, that's what art is people. That's what art is for.

AP Strange: 01:36:59

I feel like we have so a lot of people these days that just don't even seem to understand what art is or why it exists and it's like this is why because people need to think about things like if something sticks with you whether it's a song or a painting a line of poetry or a movie or even just a scene in a movie it's sticking with you because it's it's there in your head for you to think about and and hopefully change your perspective or at least you know, make you consider changing your perspective about something. Right? Yeah. Mentioned things, right?

Chris Ernst: 01:37:34

Yeah. You you mentioned Coleridge earlier and I think that that, you know, I don't know if you ever read that book by Gary Luckman, Lost Knowledge of the Imagination. Yeah. It's Coleridge is about that. He's essentially talking about, you know, like art and, you know, this other way of thinking of knowing, other way of knowing that's not empirical intellectualism, you know.

Chris Ernst: 01:37:58

Right. And, and yeah, that's

AP Strange: 01:38:01

It's intuitive and it's tapping into some kind of current that we don't really understand. Yeah. Because understanding isn't part of the deal. Feeling No. Is,

Chris Ernst: 01:38:12

Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:38:13

Yeah. It's like, I don't know. One of my friends recently was talking about difficulties overthinking playing guitar, and I'm like, well, don't think when you do it, just jam. I understand that. Yep.

AP Strange: 01:38:26

Stop thinking. Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 01:38:27

Yeah. I mean, maybe sometimes you can do some cool math rock, but, you know, the times that I've had the most you know, I miss playing in bands, particularly for playing with other people live, or even in practice because it's a way of connecting with another person that is completely different than talking. If you especially if you play with people for a long time, you know, you end up at this point where, you know, there is like you're you're it really is magical. It's like a ceremony in this, you know, very strange organic natural way that maybe we don't appreciate. But it's it's there's a connection that happens there that is, you know, can be so important and interesting and powerful and moving.

AP Strange: 01:39:12

Yeah. Yeah. And similarly, being in a movie theater, watching a masterpiece of a film with an audience that's enjoying it as much as Yeah. You Yeah. Whether it can ever be quantified or proven or anything like that is irrelevant, but everybody knows the feeling of of a group in unison.

AP Strange: 01:39:33

I appreciate Yeah,

Chris Ernst: 01:39:36

completely different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 01:39:38

I went to see the most recent Sam Raimi movie, the send help one, which, you know, maybe not the best Sam Raimi movie, but it was really fun watching with an audience at full theater. Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:39:48

Right. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 01:39:51

Okay.

AP Strange: 01:39:51

So I I I I'll have to someday get to a Kubrick showing at at some revival or something like that. I don't think

Chris Ernst: 01:40:00

I've ever

AP Strange: 01:40:00

seen a Kubrick movie in the theater, but that would be great. Anyone. I want

Chris Ernst: 01:40:04

yeah, man. I want just the does the Brad will ever do is that still around?

AP Strange: 01:40:09

They must. Yeah. They must do that at some point. Yeah. Yeah.

AP Strange: 01:40:13

Alright. Well, this has been a lot of fun. I I really enjoyed going down this little Absolutely. Kubrick meandering conversation with you, Chris. Thank you so much for joining me.

Chris Ernst: 01:40:23

Sure. Oh, my pleasure. Anytime. Love talking to you and, yeah, love talking Kubrick. Yeah.

Chris Ernst: 01:40:29

Go watch some Kubrick films, everybody.

AP Strange: 01:40:31

Absolutely. Yep. Alright. Thanks so much, man.

Chris Ernst: 01:40:35

Sure. Take care, man. Alright.