Illuminating the Sandown Clown Legend with Paul A. T. Wilson
Pardon me while I have a strange interlude. Strange figures. Welcome back, my friends, to the AP Strange Show. I am your host, AP Strange. This is my show, And today's program is brought to you by Sam's prismatic clown noses.
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AP Strange:So look up Sam's prismatic clown noses for all your all colorful needs. And on today's show, that's a great sponsor to have because you may have heard on the news recently a certain section of a weirdo will be really, really excited about this. And for Tiana and UFOs and people that are interested in these subjects, Sam the Sandown Clown looms large as a story that everybody wishes they had more info about. And very recently there was a presentation on the Isle Of Wight from Paul A. T.
AP Strange:Wilson. He's a writer, he's an artist, storyteller, a folklorist, historian of the Isle Of Wight and the pre medieval stuff and the folklore and the pagan beliefs there. But he is the one that gave this presentation and got the real scoop on further Sand Down Clown sightings. So I absolutely had to reach out to him and realized when I did that I actually used to follow him on Twitter when before we both abandoned that platform.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Before it became a hellscape.
AP Strange:Yeah, yeah. And under the sacred aisle I used to read the posts on that site and I have referenced it before in my own blog posts. So very happy to have him here. Welcome to the show Paul. Thank you for coming on.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Thank you so much for having me. What grandiose entrance. You could have just said professional liar. Dad, whenever anyone asked my dad what I did for a living, he used to say, oh, he tells lies and he draws cartoons. He meant it in the he meant it in the nicest possible way.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Right.
AP Strange:Well, it is interesting too because in an interview with you on one of the news stories, think there was a quote something to the effect, I'm paraphrasing here, that there's various versions of history that are all, it's all history, but it's all remembered differently depending on who you're
Paul A. T. Wilson:talking Yes, that's right. Yeah, nothing's made up, it's remembered differently. That's right, yeah. That turn of phrase was coined by a friend of mine and I absolutely love it. It sums things up, particularly storytelling and the art of purveying, if that's the right word, these, whether it's urban legends or ancient folklore or religion or whatever, know, there's a, you know, It's like fandom, you know, and and you you have people say, oh, well, you know, is that canon or not?
Paul A. T. Wilson:And I've always thought, you know, what? All is canon or none of it. See, all of it's real or none of it's real. I always to the side that it's all real.
AP Strange:Right. Right. Yeah, it's more fun that way. Yeah. I've talked about that before with, you know, like comic book characters like Batman or Superman.
AP Strange:They've been around for seventy five, eighty years. Gonna go through a lot of iterations. So who's gonna really decide what's canon and what's not, you know?
Paul A. T. Wilson:Exactly. Yeah.
AP Strange:Yeah. And that is interesting to think about from a folklore perspective and having a background in history is because a lot of strange tales like Sam the Sanddown Clown and UFOs, ghost stories, cryptid stories, there's always that delicate balance between the two where there's verifiable things, but the story itself is so good. You don't want to lose it, you know?
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah. I think it's important to keep the story sort of centered, but stay centered on the story. I mean, like anything, you can go down a rabbit hole and try and disprove it or prove it or anything, you know, whichever way you wanna go. But I've always been of the opinion that I just wanna know more. And this is a story that has intrigued me for most of my life, even before, you know, it was something that people really knew about, you know, it was something that I was told about sort of in the late seventies, early eighties by my dad.
Paul A. T. Wilson:We were walking. We used to go on these walks. So I was originally from the Isle Of Wight. We moved away and, you know, every soft and we come back to see my grandparents, my great grandparents. And part of that was, you know, we go on these walks and one day we went for a walk around a place called Lake Golf Course.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And we'd walked there before and said, and then he told me this story and it was spellbinding and terrifying. Had nightmares after that, but I was kind of hooked and I've been hooked ever since and it's been one of those things that although not obsessively in the front of my mind, it's always sort of scratching at the back of your head. Over the years, you know, I'd delve and dig and, you know, and lots of false starts, I have to say over the years. And, yeah, so but it's something that's it's kind of like being a constant constant itch that I've always tried to scratch.
AP Strange:Yeah, because I mean for most everybody else and especially here in The States, I think this was a very obscure story that very few people knew about. The only source most people can point to as containing the story is in the British UFO Research Association or I hope I got that right before. 1978 inaugural issue there or the first issue of the year, the January February 1.
Paul A. T. Wilson:That's right. Yeah. Yeah. That's where everyone gets their information from. There actually was a previous publication that the story went out in before Bufoura.
AP Strange:Okay.
Paul A. T. Wilson:But I have a copy of that, but no one's really, no one ever references that. They just use the before one. So all the details that everyone uses is all from that or a derivation of that. So you'll have people who have picked up the story from someone else who's picked it up from before. So you do get these reports on a better variations on the original.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And that's kind of what storytelling is all about, isn't it? The story needs to live. But yes, all references seem to all lead back to the before article, whereas my information does not.
AP Strange:Yeah, I mean, you got it straight from those source, guess.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah. So, over the years, people had got in contact, you know, I've been involved in sort of the folklore world for many years. You know, I became a professional writer about, what is it, 2025, so about twenty, no, thirty years in 1995. Oh my God. Yeah, my first article I ever wrote was an interview with Dipesh Mode or Time Out magazine.
Paul A. T. Wilson:That's a whole other story. But yes, I've been a professional writer for a long time and but I've always had this sort of real keen interest in folklore and storytelling and funnily enough, sort of Catholicism because they kind of go hand in hand, Christianity and Catholicism and and that that medieval period, which was just so rich in mythology and weirdness, you know, and, you know, it was a and I still find that sort of lush, that lushness still interesting. I'm by no means, you know, or, you know, in that sense or, you know, or a practicing Catholic. I was brought up a Catholic but not in that level of practicing Catholic, but I still find the idea of the Catholic mass and things like that just a very unctuous thing and I think it's all related. But yes, I've always had this kind of interest and over the years had several sort of false starts.
Paul A. T. Wilson:As I said, you know, a couple of people who claimed to be Faye getting in contact. And it wasn't until just before COVID that I think my brain is a little bit hazy on the date. It was one of those weird things, isn't it? It feels like it was yesterday, but it also feels like it was about one hundred and fifty years ago, doesn't it?
AP Strange:Often often say time isn't real. Like, really warped time and then nobody has a real sense of time anymore. So Exactly.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Anyway, it was sort of about beef just before COVID when someone contacted me and out of all the people who claimed to be, Faye, she was the only one who handed me actual physical, actual evidence.
AP Strange:Okay. Now just for clarity for listeners, Faye is the assumed name or the pseudonym?
Paul A. T. Wilson:That's right. A pseudonym. Yes.
AP Strange:For the young girl that was involved in the original story.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yes. And definitely not her name.
AP Strange:But just for clarity, so people don't think that like a goblin or a leprechaun was reaching out to you. The fairy folk, you know. I always thought it was funny that that was the name used because there is kind of like a almost like an otherworldly almost fairy tale quality to it. Yeah they they were the were pretty great.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah and I think that's one of the reasons that this story is captured the imagination of people is because it has that otherworldliness to it you know that weirdness and that strange sort of oddity. And as I was saying to you earlier before you started recording in the day, the family has never looked for fame or to profit for any of this. Even, you know, after all these years, there is just never been that. So it's always that has always fascinated me a little bit as well because they've absolutely held onto that anonymity through the whole thing. But yeah, as I said, it wasn't until then that someone actually came to me who had some actual evidence to back up who they were.
AP Strange:Okay.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And made all the difference. As I said, I've interviewed probably four or five Baes in inverted commas over the years. And this one was the only one that had actual evidence to show me and I was like okay I think I mean I can't be a 100% sure. Right, right. You know the stuff that she showed me could have fallen in her lap or it could be an elaborate hoax.
Paul A. T. Wilson:It didn't look like it, it didn't feel like it. It didn't read like it.
AP Strange:Okay.
Paul A. T. Wilson:You know, she's she's put a hell of a lot of work into something and aged things, you know. Right.
AP Strange:Yeah. Yeah.
Paul A. T. Wilson:All to fool some some idiot, you know. Right.
AP Strange:It's a
Paul A. T. Wilson:lot of work.
AP Strange:Yeah. I mean, even if it was to embarrass you, you you deal with folklore anyway.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah, you know, it's You're only
AP Strange:interested in the story like for the most part.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Exactly. Yeah, mean All
AP Strange:of this is exciting to me, like all of this idea that after all these years we know a little bit more, you know.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah, yeah. Mean even if it has been an elaborate hoax, know, what a great story, you know.
AP Strange:Yeah.
Paul A. T. Wilson:How fabulous would that be? But you know, as I said, and I said this in my talk, I can't be a 100% sure, but I want to believe and this stuff is compelling.
AP Strange:Yeah. Okay. Well, do we want to walk through the the initial story as printed by Bufoura? Just for anyone listeners, we'll do a quick recap because there's whole hour long shows you can find online that people heard this before. And the original before magazine is not hard to find online.
AP Strange:No.
Paul A. T. Wilson:So in my talk, I actually read out the original story that was what we'll call Mr. Y. He went by Mr. Y. What he actually hand wrote out, his handwritten notes.
Paul A. T. Wilson:So I actually read that out and it's got more detail than what was in the Bufoura story. But the Bufoura story at a very top level, the two children had gone out. They were about seven years old. I think the boy's slightly younger, but both of them basically seven. And they'd gone for a walk around a place called Lake, which is very near Sandown.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And were then walking up a part where there's a gate where you walk up, you can walk up. On the left hand side there's an airport or as you call it the aerodrome and there's a little brook that runs up there. And as they're walking up there, they hear this noise and they're going over a bridge that goes over this brook. And underneath the bridge, they see his hand they look down and you know this weird clown like person with a book. The book falls in the water and he bumbles in the water trying to find it.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Kids run off and the creature goes into a little hut, pulls out a speaker and and starts speaking to them. And even though they're quite far away, they could hear him like right in their ears. It wasn't like a loud speaker. So the way it's written in the before, it's like a loud speaker, but actually in the notes, hear it in their ears, right? So it's like you're just talking right at, like he's there, even though he's quite far away.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And he sort of says the famous lines of, hello, are you still there? I'm I'm all color Sam. And they he invites them into the into his heart, And they they go inside this, like, it's a like a workman's hut. And it's like a multidimensional thing. You know, when they go in, there's a subterranean part.
Paul A. T. Wilson:It's kind of, it's bigger on the inside than it is on the outside. There's this strange wallpaper, this interdimensional wallpaper.
AP Strange:Yeah.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And, you know, they
AP Strange:I've joked before that it must be a Tardis, you know. It's a
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's the same same sort of concept, I guess. And and, you know, there's it was kind of sparsely for, you know, there's kind of chairs and a table, and there's an electric heater there to keep him warm. And, anyway, he's out and and his his uniform was sort of tattered.
Paul A. T. Wilson:He's And sort of hiding out from people. He said to know that he's not very strong. So he's worried that people will hurt him. And he's not very strong. And the little girl said that she thought he looked strong enough, but, you know, he seems like a nonviolent, you know, he's a passive pacifist type person.
Paul A. T. Wilson:They have this conversation and he he does this this weird magic trick with a berry. He puts a berry in his ear and it rolls around in his head and they see it go past his eyes and it pops out of his mouth and and he turns a he turned I can't remember what it is. He turns a stone into a seagull or something like that. And he does some these these weird magic tricks and things. And then they the time is up and they leave and they, and I don't think this is in the before report, but they said that there was workmen there but they didn't, acted like nothing was there, like there was nothing there.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And there was a notebook that Sam was using to sketch and draw things out write on. And he dropped it in the water and he gave it to he gave it to Faye, take with her. And they they stopped as they were running back home, they stopped the groundskeeper and they said, just saw a ghost. And he laughed at them and, anyway, they went home and then about a month later or, you know, a few weeks later, she confessed to her father about this whole thing. And that's kind of the story that everyone knows.
AP Strange:Yep. And
Paul A. T. Wilson:the father had actually had some encounters with UFOs as well that he recounts. He had, let me have a quick look here, my notes. So he had, yeah, one, two, three, four, five, six, he's had six ish encounters over the years. They were kind of summarized in the article as well. Not all of them, think maybe three of them were.
Paul A. T. Wilson:But yeah, so it's a very strange and interesting story and the kids drew the original pictures of Sam and I've got all those original pictures, those original drawings by the kids that have never been published. Know, these are things that have never been published before. And then Faye went on to describe four other encounters she had with Sam over the years have never been reported on.
AP Strange:I mean, okay, so this is the really exciting stuff for people that know the story because, like I said, it's so strange because it's almost like Mr. Wise initial UFO sightings were the only reason he would have been talking to before anyway because there is no UFO in the Sandown Sam.
Paul A. T. Wilson:No. You
AP Strange:know, there's nothing flying.
Paul A. T. Wilson:No. And it doesn't fit, you know, to me it feels very otherworldly, very, you know, what we'd say sort of, you know, elvish or, you know, to do with the other people or the the the place that the other place, you know. Right. Or, you know, in modern observation, maybe interdimensional or something like that. The other encounters that you know they kind of touch on it in that initial contact when they go into the shed.
Paul A. T. Wilson:It's almost like going to a different place.
AP Strange:Yeah And the family wasn't from the Isle Of Wight? I think they were vacationing there originally.
Paul A. T. Wilson:No, no, no they were from the Isle Of Wight.
AP Strange:Oh okay, they lived there. Alright.
Paul A. T. Wilson:So yeah somehow that seems to have crept into the story, but no, that's absolutely not. They're absolutely another white family.
AP Strange:Okay. All right.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah, I'm not sure where that came from. A lot of people seem to think that they were on holidays, no, it would. Yeah. But no, they were definitely Islanders.
AP Strange:Okay. All right. The real or who we supposed to be the real Faye came to you, she had four other encounters with him over the years?
Paul A. T. Wilson:Correct. Okay. That's right, yeah. Yeah, so she had one when she was, let me grab my notes. So she had one in 1982 when she was 16 And she said it was about ten to twelve minutes long.
Paul A. T. Wilson:She'd been working at a local horse stable, a part time job to earn money. And it was spring, I think. And she was on her way home, she'd go catch the bus back to Sandown. And as she was walking along there Sam appeared to her and this time he had what she describes as like a flute or a whistle, a whistle with buttons on it.
AP Strange:Okay.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And he could use it to make patterns and draw shapes in the air. And she said that she finds it impossible to describe what it was, but it was like moving chalk drawings. You know, see people draw on concrete with chalk.
AP Strange:Right,
Paul A. T. Wilson:right. You know, may make these elaborate things. That's kind of what she described it as, but they were moving and they were in the air. And she said it wasn't frightening or anything like that. She said there's a faint buzz and the world sort of shimmered and floated in front of her and he spoke to her and he said, said his voice was clearer now because it was kind of very robotic
AP Strange:when
Paul A. T. Wilson:she was a child. It was clear now like he'd learned more or you know or the equipment was working better or whatever it was. And he said, I've been keeping my eye out for you, he said. And he said, I'm very happy we made friends. And then she didn't really know what to say to him.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And he said, Things are fixed now. I don't have to hide or forage. And then she asked what he meant, but he didn't elaborate. So there's this running theme that he will say things that may not necessarily make any sense. When she asked him to elaborate, he kind of got onto the next thing.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And this is the thing that I found consistent through the whole thing is this odd way of communicating.
AP Strange:Now this is occurring at a bus stop. Is this a populated area or is it kind of like near or Yeah, stable that's
Paul A. T. Wilson:it's in the countryside, it's like country lane and there's sort of woodland around, but yeah, it's basically at a bus stop.
AP Strange:Right.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Or just before the bus stop,
AP Strange:you know? Yeah.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And then she then said, you know, I need to go catch my bus now because the family would worry where she is. And he just nods and he says, I'll see you again. And he says, he's and and this and this is she said, she remembers this clearly. He said, I'll see you again four more times if you want. Travel safely.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And then he turned and he hopped off with his hopping gate and disappeared into the scrub, to the shrubs. And he still had the whistle in his hand and she caught the bus and went home.
AP Strange:Did you happen to ask if he had gotten a change of clothing in that nine or ten years? Was he still dressed the same with the raggedy clothes?
Paul A. T. Wilson:She said, Tall exactly as she remembered him, same strange clothing though less tattered now, the same paper white face, the same painted on features that gave him a grin without emotion.
AP Strange:Okay.
Paul A. T. Wilson:That's her words, her actual words. What I'm reading you here is the transcript. So I'm just plucking bits out of the transcript that she said. They're her actual words. The same with the quotes, they're her actual words.
Paul A. T. Wilson:So then the next encounter was in 1983. So a year later, this time it was in the summer. She was 17. She'd gone to meet friends at a local park And I know the park well. And there were concrete benches there for people to sit on.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And they were sort of sitting around being teenagers, drinking and cheap cider and cheap beer and smoking cigarettes. This is the thing that struck me. She said one of her friends had stolen half a bottle of sherry from their mom's cupboard and everyone passed it around and hated it except for her. Said she'd
AP Strange:pink sherry or
Paul A. T. Wilson:I'm gonna guess so. I don't know. Because it's these little it's these little details that I don't think you'd get if someone was just making this stuff up.
AP Strange:Do you know Yeah. I Yeah.
Paul A. T. Wilson:It's just like little weird stuff like the sherry being passed around, like, okay. That doesn't really add anything to the story, but, you know, she said she was phone cold sober. You know, she said she hadn't touched anything. She said, this is what she said, She remembers the taste of nothing on her tongue, but then she smelt the scent of earth and burnt leaves. So that suddenly happened and she said then without a sound or warning she wasn't there anymore, but she was.
Paul A. T. Wilson:So she was still at the benches, still at the park, but the park was different. So it was the same layout, same trees, same benches, her friends were all gone. And she said the place had been overlaid with something unseen. The colors were deeper, the shadows were longer and the silence was complete. That's her words.
Paul A. T. Wilson:She said it was like reality had been turned down, not turned off, softened. She calls it the other. And then a pathway and then Sam was standing there in the center of the path. He looked as much as she remembered. She said tall, paper white face.
Paul A. T. Wilson:But this time he was not alone. She said there were others, figures that looked like him, tall, strange, but they were difficult to focus on. Some wore clothing like his, odd patchwork garments stitched in, unplaceable fabrics. Others shimmered slightly like heat, you know, like a heat shimmer.
AP Strange:Yeah, yeah.
Paul A. T. Wilson:She said they didn't speak, but they chatted not in English, and it wasn't even a sound. It was like voices heard through a pane of thick water, she said. If you go into a swimming pool and you hear all the chattering, all the kids and everything, and it's that.
AP Strange:It was like that.
Paul A. T. Wilson:It's kind of how she said language without meaning is what she said from her perspective.
AP Strange:Right, right.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And then she said she saw doorways, not in the ordinary sense, but tall freestanding shapes, openings that seem to show glimpses of other places. One showed something green and bright, the other had what looked like stars behind it. Another simply shimmered like a sheet of mercury in the air. Sam approached her gently. His movements were smooth and he said, I'm glad you're here.
Paul A. T. Wilson:You are doing well. That's what he said. Again, she didn't know what to say. She was overwhelmed. She wasn't afraid or anything.
Paul A. T. Wilson:She just didn't really know. And then he led her past doorways, not into them, but near enough that she could sense each one held something different. He showed her things, not visions exactly, but impressions. She couldn't remember them all but she couldn't remember them all later. Some felt joyous, others cold, but one stuck with her.
Paul A. T. Wilson:A view of the earth from far above distant and glowing blue, and then another Europe whole without borders, without barbed wire is what she said. So this 1983, right? So center of the cold war.
AP Strange:Right, right, yeah.
Paul A. T. Wilson:She said she didn't know what to ask, but Sam answered anyway. And he said, The world will not end in your lifetime. He said, There will be no nuclear war and Europe will not be so split for long. And then he then said, This is the second time I told you there would be four more if you wish it. And she asked, Why her?
Paul A. T. Wilson:And he said, Nothing. He just nodded slowly. And then it was over. There was no sound, no energy, just, you know, it was like, bang.
AP Strange:All of a sudden she's back with her friends.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And she looked at them and they were they were still continuing on. And she said, how long was I gone? And they just laughed at her. They said, what are you talking about? You've just been sitting here.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah. You know? And and they said, you know, you must have had too much to drink or whatever and then she just sort of let it pass and but to her it seemed like a whole bunch of time but to them they didn't even recognize that there'd been anything happen.
AP Strange:Yeah, I mean and that is fascinating too because I think in the original or well in the before account there is a reference to something Sam said about there being others like him.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Mhmm.
AP Strange:When he's being kind of coy and cryptic or maybe just not communicating properly about what exactly he is. He says like, I'm not really a ghost, but I'm kind of like a ghost. And then he's
Paul A. T. Wilson:like, I'm not a ghost, kind of am, yeah, that sort of thing.
AP Strange:And he's like, but there's others like me, you know, I'm not the only one, you know, so this is an opportunity to get a glimpse of some of these others and possibly where they come from or how they travel through like these portals or doorways that she mentions.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Exactly. And so the next one was in 1984, she's 18 now And it's kind of winter cold and drab. So the main town on the island is called Newport and she traveled to Newport to go see her boyfriend who lived there. And I'm not gonna give the roads away because it'd be just on the off chance that someone could use that to kind of backtrack. Know, do know what I mean?
Paul A. T. Wilson:Right, right. Yeah, yeah. So I'm gonna be as vague as I can, but by giving enough information. So she was walking and there was a cut through that she could take sort of down a back alley that would take her straight to her boyfriend's road. So she started going down that road but then she stopped for some inexplicable reason and turned around and walked a different way.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And as she walked that way, all of a sudden Sam just sort of walked out from behind a fence. But he wasn't hopping like he had before. He was walking and this is different. This is a bit different. So she describes him differently.
Paul A. T. Wilson:So she says, what did she say? His appearance startled her. She said, His tall figure slightly stooped, still looking out of place in this world. He was dressed more normally and he didn't appear to have the alabaster complexion. He appeared more human and his mannerisms and speech patterns were more like a normal person.
Paul A. T. Wilson:That's what she says.
AP Strange:So he's Wow. Becoming human or something.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Well in this encounter, yeah. And he says to her, and he says, I don't have much time. He said, I'm using up one of my visits is what he said. And she asked what he meant and he said, I know where you're going to see the boy you shouldn't. And then he said, Just turn around, just go home.
Paul A. T. Wilson:That is all please. And then he stepped away and he was gone. So she ended up doing that and then it turned out that later that night, the boy, her boyfriend and one of his friends got arrested for trying to rob a, I'm not gonna say what it was, but an establishment. Tried to rob this place. So it was like he warned her to keep her out of trouble.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And then the last encounter that she had was in 1989. So she was 24 now. This one lasted a lot longer. She was about to leave the island. She just got married and they were off to start their new life.
Paul A. T. Wilson:She said they didn't have his honeymoon. He had a job on the Mainland and they were going straight to their new gigs and, you know, they were going and to they were staying at a friend's place before they left. And she went out for a walk to sort of like she said she often did which tracks with everything that she talks about, know. She's gone out for a walk and as she went out for a walk, again there's like odd little bits in here. She talks about how there was a fish pond that had been filled in.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And it kind of adds nothing to the story, but she talks about these little bits and pieces that you're like, okay. Anyway, as she's walking along she said she saw a that she'd never seen before. There was a type of train called an intercity express that we used to have and at the time they looked pretty futuristic, they're kind of a bit aerodynamic and she said that it almost looked like an intercity express train, long white and oddly sleek. The roof was corrugated iron, know, like the roof
AP Strange:was Like ripples so that the rain can run off.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah, yeah. So corrugated iron slightly bowed. The whole structure seemed out of place as though it had been dropped into the landscape and Sam was waiting there. He stood outside the hut exactly as she remembered this time his face was painted again and he was in odd, his odd clothing not like before. And he said, Come in for tea.
Paul A. T. Wilson:He invited her in for tea. And then when inside there was a table, two chairs, a strange device like a kettle, but not a kettle. Cups were made of soft material like material like porcelain, but pliable in her fingers. They sat, he poured tea. She said it smelt of herbs, but she couldn't name them.
Paul A. T. Wilson:She said it was sweet, it wasn't P. And they spoke for a while and she said much of what he said faded quickly from memory, not by choice, but she called it a soft forgetting, like waking from a vivid dream, she said. She said something stayed. He told her the Berlin Wall would fail, would fall. She remembered thinking that's impossible.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Must be one of his riddles.
AP Strange:Right.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And he said, this is the last time you'll see me until the end. And finally she said, and this one, she finally asked him where he was from. And he said, I'm from this place, but different. And that was it. There were no visions or anything like that.
Paul A. T. Wilson:She said, They stepped outside. It was now the afternoon. She said goodbye. He raised his hand and waved. She walked back and when she went back she looked around the hut was gone and that was it and she's never seen Sam since.
AP Strange:Wow but she's still got one more at the end I guess. That's awesome.
Paul A. T. Wilson:At the end. Yeah. At the end.
AP Strange:Wow. Yeah. I mean, I kind of got chills there for a second thinking about like the end. Like, I'll see you at the end, especially with the state of the world these days. The end of what, Sam?
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah. Well, I mean, did say that there'd be no nuclear war, you know, in her lifetime. Yeah. Fingers crossed.
AP Strange:Right. Right. Well, because you have to wonder if the end is personal to her, like her personal end of life or the end of all, you know.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah,
AP Strange:that's what's worrying me I guess. But he does, know, she alluded to him kind of speaking in riddles. Did she always feel that that was the case with him that there was some deeper meaning to what he said that needed to be deciphered?
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah, well I mean the way she spoke, know, he didn't she'd ask him things but wouldn't necessarily get an answer. So it's kind of, I think tricky. So yeah, I don't know whether he deliberately spoken riddles or if that's just his way of communicating.
AP Strange:Yeah, I mean I always kind of got the sense that you know he's from another place or a different version of the same place, the aisle, know, but it's a slightly damped down version of it another spectrum, somewhere else on the spectrum of realities. And the way he speaks is perfectly sensible to him. But Yeah. It's not coming through. It's not coming across the way we perhaps would want it to.
AP Strange:He's not it doesn't seem clear to us, but there probably is a way to decipher it. But he's not intentionally making a riddle, so it's hard to find the key.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah. Exactly.
AP Strange:Yeah. It's that's pretty wild stuff. Yeah. So these transcripts are the result of you sitting down to interview her. Did you record the interview?
AP Strange:Correct.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah. But you know she under the proviso that I'd never released them.
AP Strange:Yes. Oh yeah, of course.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah.
AP Strange:I mean I thought when I when I had invited you on the show you had you had made it a point to mention that we'd like to keep the identity private. Like they do want the privacy of the whole family but they specifically we don't want people like trying to hunt her down because she obviously doesn't want to be known but she wants the story. I mean it feels like a gift really that she gave you the story so that you could tell it and it's a gift for all of us.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah I mean it's something that I never thought I'd have the chance to find out about, you know I mean? Have the chance to tell.
AP Strange:Yeah.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Because you know, it's her story to tell.
AP Strange:Yeah and I mean you had heard it by way of your father as a kid, right? Yeah. Where did he hear it from? I'm curious. Was there talk around town about it or was it known locally in that region?
Paul A. T. Wilson:No, really didn't get any traction until probably the last sort of ten years maybe, maybe a bit less. Okay, alright.
AP Strange:So,
Paul A. T. Wilson:he found out about it from before which he had a subscription to.
AP Strange:Oh okay, alright. The same way we all did.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
AP Strange:I was curious if, well I didn't want to assume that your father was a flying saucer enthusiast. Maybe he had heard it from somebody at the golf course or something.
Paul A. T. Wilson:My dad was very, very interested in all sorts of strange and wonderful things, know. Had books upon books upon books, you know. I used to devour these things, you know, the unexplained and all those sorts of things. And you remember that TV programme In Search Of?
AP Strange:Yeah.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Leonard Nimoy and yeah, yeah. Know, we used to sit down and watch that together.
AP Strange:Great, great, yeah.
Paul A. T. Wilson:You know, they'd watch, I think it was like a Saturday night, maybe it was a Sunday night. Was always a Sunday night they used to show you, and they'd it completely, you know, they'd repeat it all the time, but we'd sit down and watch it because Sunday families, you know, we'd have a sort of a family roast on a Sunday and then Sunday evening, dad and I would sit down and we'd watch this eating sort of cheese sandwich, you know, because you know, you just, you don't really want too much. And I've just got these vivid memories of sitting there watching in search of and you know any of those sort of mystery things that would come on you know, we'd be straight on it you know.
AP Strange:Yeah, oh yeah. Well that's great. Okay. Well, beyond that, had alluded to earlier and I didn't press it at the time, but earlier on, mentioned some artifacts that Faye had as well or some items from the time.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah.
AP Strange:This was like evidence to you that it was legitimate but well if you don't at the risk of asking something that you don't wanna answer.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah. Well, she she brought out a massive box.
AP Strange:Okay.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And in the in the box were documents and the original handwritten letters to before, to the MOD UFO office to all that sort of like, you know, I think fifty, sixty pages worth of stuff and yeah and so she let me copy them. So I had to race back home and pick up my scanner. You see that printer there?
AP Strange:Yeah, yeah.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Like a big brother printer. I had to come back and get that and take that down. And she let me scan all the documents. So yeah, that's what sold it for me.
AP Strange:Great.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And just let me just show you something. Let share my screen. I can show you a few bits and pieces. Some of it, so this is from the talk I did so I don't mind sort of showing. So on the left hand side of the screen, can see full report 1972 report from Isle Of Wight, the detention of Mr.
Paul A. T. Wilson:N. Oliver. So that's and what we got here. So my original report of the incident, here's some of the handwritten notes that he did, Here's some of the original drawings. You can see them there.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Oops. So here's the original correspondence. His original handwritten letters. You can see all that sort of stuff. So that was the sort of stuff that she showed me.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And there's much, much more of this that I'm not putting this but that's the stuff that made me, I was like, oh, okay, right. Yeah, this feels legitimate to me.
AP Strange:Well, because in order to fake it, she'd have had to, like you said, like age the paper, make it appear that it was 50 years old or, you know. Yeah.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, it's been written and the handwritten stuff is written with a fountain pen, not with an actual ballpoint, you know. But yeah, there's as I said, is a lot more but that's just sort of what I shared in the talk. And that's what I saw that I thought, okay, well there's it feels there's some legitimacy here.
AP Strange:Yeah, it certainly does and beyond that did you have a sense of what made her decide to come forward with the new material?
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yes. But I can't say.
AP Strange:Okay. Clearly she trusted you with it.
Paul A. T. Wilson:I I I know exactly why she did, but I can't Alright.
AP Strange:But You know, as I had said before, she trusted you with it, has got to be a nice feeling, especially having been such an interest in it for such a long time.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, was it kind of came out of the blue as well. And the weirdness about it was that I'd been on a podcast where there was like a whole bunch of folklorists and we all picked our favorite stories. And I picked this one to talk about.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And I said, I've been trying to find the girl forever, know, and lo and behold, a month later, contact was made. Was very, very strange. It was like the stars aligned.
AP Strange:I guess sometimes it just works that way. It's really strange for people that do these sorts of investigations or even just research into strange stories. I mean, I think a lot more than let on have these kinds of experiences where things just seem to line up. And it's just fortuitously like right at the moment when you're really looking into something that falls into your lap, you know.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah and you know, you know, the right time and it's something that but I've sat on this for a very long time just not knowing what to do with it.
AP Strange:Yeah because you end up in a quandary I think where I mean you're very adamant about maintaining the privacy that you promised her which is honorable and I think a lot of people don't realize, lot of consumers of strange stories, we'll put it that way, people that listen to the shows and this is especially directed to those that cruelly snipe from the comments section on YouTube with these stories. You're not entitled to anybody's story. You're entitled to what they want No. There, know, like
Paul A. T. Wilson:I think once it's shared, absolutely you're entitled to use that and talk about it all. But you're only entitled to what's in the public domain.
AP Strange:Right.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And I've been very, in my talk, was very careful not to use exact dates or exact locations. So, Fay gave me a map and on that map it shows their exact route that they took from their house or from her house to the golf course and through the golf course. But I couldn't use that because it showed exactly where they were. So, I didn't use that. Although she doesn't live there anymore but by virtue of the fact that we know the basic dates when this stuff happened and that stuff is out in the public domain and would be easy to to find that out she doesn't want that.
AP Strange:Yeah, yeah. Yeah and we can all respect that and especially because these additional stories there is a continuity they all seem like you said very similar to one another in their kind of otherworldliness and weirdness and the behavior of Sam, even though his appearance changes over time. I think that's fascinating that when he showed up in a more populated area, he appeared more human and was wearing different clothing and couldn't stay as long. Speaks to me maybe being able to shape shift on some level, but it being a very big strain on him, so he has to Yeah.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah, it's really interesting stuff and one thing that as I said, there are all these little sort of details and the other thing that struck me is when she recounted the story, she recounted it it's hard to describe, wasn't like the story hadn't changed, so there were some differences. But you'd expect minor differences because she told her father who then took that and wrote it down and then that was taken and edited and then put, know, so you have this change. Her description is slightly different. And I've also got the transcripts of the interview because there were interviews with the kids and I've got the transcripts of the interviews with kids and they absolutely stack up. It's very, very interesting.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And I said in my talk, Everyone needs to decide for themselves whether they believe it or not. Even the most skeptical of people have to look at and say, something may not be what they described. It may have been the kids with active imaginations, but something happened. And this goes right back to us saying, these are real people. Real people with real lives and some of them you know some of them are still alive.
AP Strange:Well now you say kids, are you referring to the young man in the story as well?
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yes, right. Yes. Yeah.
AP Strange:So you interviewed him as well?
Paul A. T. Wilson:No, no, no. I didn't interview him but had the transcripts.
AP Strange:I've got a copy
Paul A. T. Wilson:of the transcripts from his conversation. No. No. No. I've never met him.
Paul A. T. Wilson:I don't even I don't even know his real name.
AP Strange:Okay. Yeah. Just wanted to clarify. So the transcript from the original. Yeah.
AP Strange:Alright. Now with with your background in folklore and history with The Isle, the I guess it's kind of a silly question because we did cover it a little bit already, but does this have does Sam as a personage kind of have any resonance with other folkloric things you've encountered in looking into the history of The Isle? Is there anything that sticks out as being very similar from medieval times on as an entity?
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah, I mean there were all sorts of strange and weird stories from the island. There's lots of documented cases of people sort of stepping into, there's like a sea fog that quite often will, you know, this time of year blows
AP Strange:around
Paul A. T. Wilson:People the step into that and then they say that, you know, when you step in there, you don't know when or where you'll come out. So you may come out last week, know, you might, you don't know, you just don't know. And so there's a very heavy tradition. There's also quite a big tradition of time slips and other places being viewed and seen on the island. So it's not an unusual thing.
Paul A. T. Wilson:And there's encounters with strange creatures and, you know, from sort of monsters or just odd people. So it's not unusual. There are lots of these sorts of reports, the sort of modern as well as quite old stories about these sorts of things. To me it feels like spam not necessarily being extraterrestrial, but being otherworldly or, you know, art of that strange elfin sort of world.
AP Strange:Yeah, I kind of thought of him as being like a nature spirit sort of, know, some kind of genius loci for that area, but maybe modernized or amalgamated with other strains of creative energy.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah, I mean there's all sorts of theories and actually in my talk I went through several theories about who he might have been, what it might have been, from the very weird to the rational. And what I think is wonderful about Sam and the story is how there's been this adoption of the story. He's become a beacon, a mascot for all sorts of people. The LGBTQ community have adopted him on the island and you know, the trans community particularly as well. And, but also, you know, there is something comforting about Sam, I think.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah. You know, he non threatening, you know, he wasn't the harbinger of bad news. He didn't do anything to hurt anyone. And there's an innocence and a playfulness about him, you know.
AP Strange:Yeah. And he seems to genuinely care for Faye, you know, like working out Yeah, for yeah.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah, and I think that's great, know, and I think that's one of the things that people find attractive to the story as well as just the weirdness of absolute strangeness of it all.
AP Strange:Yeah, I mean it's right up there with another Isle, the Isle Of Man and Jeff the talking mongoose, so it's like almost on the same level of Yeah strangeness, you
Paul A. T. Wilson:exactly, I mean yeah, there's the same sort of weirdness, right? I remember hearing about that story in the 80s as well, know. I used to have a subscription to all these sorts of strange magazines you know before and there was one called Nexus and there was one from The US called Omni. Do you remember Omni?
AP Strange:Yeah, yeah. Have some of those old issues.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah so I used to have I used to have subscriptions so I begged my parents for them and you know I used to just devour these things and yeah I remember Jeff I thought that's just such a weird and strange story I loved it.
AP Strange:Yeah and it's like art imitating life or vice versa now I guess there is a mongoose that escaped from zoo in the Isle Of Man and they named it Jeff after Jeff's talking mongoose. So Jeff is currently running around over there.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Likewise It's Jeff. Yes.
AP Strange:And likewise on the Isle Of Wight was there a new statue installed some kind of a landmark?
Paul A. T. Wilson:There was yeah, yeah and an artist created a life size statue of Sam who lives down at the airport.
AP Strange:Oh wonderful, so yeah right about where it would have happened is on the edge of the airport.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Kind of yeah.
AP Strange:Although I always got the sense from the story, I don't know if I'm correct on this, but I got the sense that it was a bit off the beaten path where Fey and the young man were like running around. Probably not really open, like the edge of the No, no, it's off course.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah, in the rough. Yeah, I mean there were footpaths all around there so you know where you can roam around but yeah. Bit in the rough.
AP Strange:Yeah. Okay, well, I mean, this is all great. It's really a blessing to get these new stories. I think it's wonderful. And I think when I first became aware of your work, had read about you kind of made it a goal with the sacred aisle stuff that you used to do to re enchant the world.
AP Strange:You're trying to bring a sense of enchantment back to the aisle. I think this is a wonderful way to do that with a modern story. Yeah, yeah,
Paul A. T. Wilson:I think it's important. In this modern world, it's so important to sort of still have that sense of wonder and weirdness and strangeness. You know, don't get me wrong, love science and I love the rational and I love, because I think the universe is an incredibly interesting and brilliant place but you know also it's also nice to have a little bit of magic, little bit of the unexplained, right?
AP Strange:Yeah and I think that both can simultaneously coexist. Mean I think that the truth about reality is probably not only weirder than we think it's weirder than we have the ability to think. Exactly. You know, exactly. So they can all be true exactly like like you had quipped at the beginning with yeah remembered differently.
Paul A. T. Wilson:That's right, yeah nothing's made up it's just remembered differently. Yeah as I said to you know it's either none of it's true or all of it's true and I like to think that all of it's true.
AP Strange:Yeah, yeah absolutely. Yeah as far as the original encounter site is there anything there historically that you think would be related with pagan beliefs and pre medieval times?
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah so it's a very weird place around there you know it's sort of marshy and you know they're very close to there. There was an early medieval or actually even it goes back to the sort of Neolithic crossroads sort of around that area where there looks like there was a meeting place around there as well. So, were several walkways that went sort of through this marshland and they met sort of centrally around there. So, archeology around there, there was something special about that place and it's, but yeah, as I said, it's a very, it's got a weird feel about it as well, know, it's kind of, strange sort of woodland areas that when you go in there, everything sort of goes quiet, you know, and then you have these moments of weirdness, then all of a sudden the world changes and you're back to hearing the roads and the planes and whatever else. Yeah, there was this central meeting place or what appears to be because you know there's this crossroads of all these crisscrossing roads around there and quite close to there was a place called The Devil Stones where they were, you know, these big old stones that were there and I can't quite remember the story now, I have to look it up again, but you could do something, something to do with bread, baking bread and something with the stones.
Paul A. T. Wilson:If you did that, you could catch the devil or a fairy or something like that and grab them, trick them and grab them and they have to grant your wish. And this one woman kept doing it He got so cross with it that he picked up these stones and he threw them. Now there's these weird stones all around the island from where he threw these, the devil stones. So there's like three or four devil stones around the island that we're supposed to
AP Strange:be Are they like standing stones kind of like the roll right stones or something like
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah like that yeah. One of them's fallen in the sea now and another one but there's a few around yeah.
AP Strange:Wow, yeah that is interesting to consider. I mean I don't know if it's related to Sam or Sam.
Paul A. T. Wilson:I don't know. Maybe a Yeah,
AP Strange:it's funny to me too that you said that the trans community has kind of adopted Sam because Sam is like one of those ambiguous names. It could be a man's name or a woman's name. Yeah and it's not clear if there is a gender for the entity.
Paul A. T. Wilson:It's not even clear if that's his name.
AP Strange:Right.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Right. You know Sam could be a title. Yeah. Because you know, know it's not even clear if that's his name and you know it's kind of it's not included, know, male or female, know, androgynous creature that, you know, so yeah, I think it's fantastic.
AP Strange:Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's great because I mean, if I recall correctly, what he said was I am all colors Sam, but there was like a comma between colors and Sam as though he was referring to her as Sam.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah, she thought she thought yes. Yeah, they thought though that he was calling them Sam.
AP Strange:Right. Then I think later he says that it's just a name he likes, you know, like.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah. Yeah.
AP Strange:I guess she never really got further answers about any of this stuff then despite seeing him several times. Yeah.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Or if she did, she doesn't remember.
AP Strange:Yeah, that was kind of fascinating too. During that longer encounter, it was almost like waking up from a dream where you remember everything and then it kind of softly fades and you only get to see it. Yeah.
Paul A. T. Wilson:That's right yeah and in a way that she said maybe she's always felt maybe it's not time for her to remember these things yet but maybe one day she will.
AP Strange:Yeah yeah that makes sense and I guess that would have been the only time she accepted food or drink from him, right? Because yeah with the tea.
Paul A. T. Wilson:That's right, yeah.
AP Strange:Yeah because that's kind of a big no no if you're dealing with otherworldly entities in a lot of cases.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah, well that's right, yeah. And end up getting stuck with Hades for the rest of your life.
AP Strange:Right, but unless Sam was really playing the long game, I think she just trusted it by that point.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah I think so yeah.
AP Strange:Yeah well this is all very fun to talk over and you had discussed this publicly. Are you doing a second presentation of this? Am yes. By popular demand.
Paul A. T. Wilson:By popular demand. Yes. I'm doing doing a second one and I'm actually doing a follow-up as well with because I I I just had too much information. I couldn't go through it all in one night. Let me look up the dates.
Paul A. T. Wilson:I should have it in my diary, shouldn't I?
AP Strange:Let's see. Were you thinking about doing this as a virtual presentation so that people outside the Isle Of Light could see it as well?
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yes, I'm going to I'm gonna film it and then put it up on YouTube.
AP Strange:Wonderful. So, okay.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah, so the August 9 is the next one. I think, yeah, so that's half sold out now. And I've got a second, a follow-up one on the November 1, which I'm saying, Hello, are you still there? The Sandown Clown Part two, where we'll go through the stories from the father, also other encounters from around the world and some encounters that have come through to me since I did this show. I did the talk.
Paul A. T. Wilson:So there's been several people who've contacted me recently to talk through encounters. Similar, not the same, but similar. Anyone who contacted me claiming to have met the exact same entity, I'm a little bit skeptical of.
AP Strange:Right, right.
Paul A. T. Wilson:But there have been people that have contacted me with similar stories and there's been about 10 of them, but there's been two that I found extremely interesting because they had some detail in there that I have not released that actually I got from the interviews with Faye. So, there's a similarity there. So, those two and the third one is quite interesting, but I'm kind of on the fence about.
AP Strange:Okay. Well, it sounds like you have enough for a book eventually.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Well, yeah. I'm thinking I'll probably write something for if the 14 times will have me. Maybe write an article for that or see test the waters with that first of all and then go from there really.
AP Strange:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it sounds great. I can't imagine why they wouldn't wouldn't want to do that.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Well yeah they might read my writing and think it's terrible. Well
AP Strange:I've read your writing on your website and I think it's just great so I doubt that will be the case. But yeah, I mean this is all really great stuff and I'm so happy that more has come out. I'm glad that you're putting it out into the world now and I'm really grateful that you came on to discuss it with me. This is
Paul A. T. Wilson:Thanks for reaching out. Yeah, I fully believe that anything I can make public should be public. I don't believe in gatekeeping, and holding this information just for me. So my thoughts are that if I do write a book or something like that, I'll make sure that it's available to as many people as possible for as free or whatever. Everything I do, I kind of give away for free.
Paul A. T. Wilson:I'm not very good at monetizing this sort of stuff, but I think my initial thoughts is to have a physical book that people can buy, but then maybe download the free version of electronic version or something along those lines. Maybe publish it out under creative commons or something.
AP Strange:Yeah, oh yeah and I mean that certainly would be welcome on my shelves. It would be right at home with all my other weird books.
Paul A. T. Wilson:See how we go.
AP Strange:But in the meantime, if people want to read about other folklore history about the Isle Of Wight and things that you have available online, where can they go to find that?
Paul A. T. Wilson:They can look at my terrible old website, witlaw.ukwhitl0w l0re.uk, or they can follow me on Blue Sky. It's probably the best place. Okay. So at whitlaw.uk, so as I said, whitl0re.uk on blue sky, that's where I publish most of my stuff, that's where I talk about my stuff mostly.
AP Strange:Okay.
Paul A. T. Wilson:I find that a nice little platform to talk about stuff.
AP Strange:Right, yeah, yeah, I mean it's great. I was going through it today reading about dragons and stuff and there's no shortage of interesting things on that island and your writings about it.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah, there's all sorts of, you know, yeah, dragon stories and stories of a guy who turns someone into a tree and, you know, there's all sorts of stuff.
AP Strange:Yeah. Yeah.
Paul A. T. Wilson:My my great my great grandmother used to say, you can't can't go around a corner on the island without meeting a ghost. So
AP Strange:Yeah. Well it sounds like my kind of place. I'll have to make a journey out there someday.
Paul A. T. Wilson:Yeah, if you do let me know and I'll take you to all the weird places.
AP Strange:Wonderful. Okay. Alright. Well, thanks again for coming on, Paul. It's been a lot.
Paul A. T. Wilson:My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
AP Strange:Yeah.