Watching Movies Until it Hurts with John C. Meyers

AP Strange:

Pardon me while I have a strange interlude. But there is nothing else. Life is an obscure oboe bumming a ride on the omnibus of art. Among the misty corridors of pine, and in those corridors I see figures, strange figures. Welcome back my friends to the AP Strange show.

AP Strange:

I am your host, AP Strange. This is my show and tonight's show is brought to you by the revenge of the return of the son of the horror movie from hell. This is bound to be an ultimate experience in terror, so go check it out. It's even better than the return of the son of the horror movie from hell. So I'm sure there will be more, But go check those out, the whole franchise.

AP Strange:

It's all made by AI and it's available for you right now. So, I'm on the show tonight. We're gonna be geeking out about movies in general. This is kind of in the tradition of my third time's a charm shows, but we're just kind of widely talking about franchises and movies and, all sorts of geekery and for this show. I have a guy, one of my favorite guys to listen to who talks about movies because he has two separate podcasts where he does so called John and Alex Hate Stuff and this may hurt a bit.

AP Strange:

John C. Myers is my guest tonight. Welcome to the show, John.

John C. Meyers:

Thanks a lot for having me. Hi. That's very, nice of you to say. Very, very lovely introduction.

AP Strange:

Well, yeah, I mean I mean it. It's a I think I slept on This May Hurt a Bit for a little while and then finally jumped on. I'm like, man, why wasn't I listening to this earlier? Because

John C. Meyers:

It's it's it's a fun show, but it depends a lot on the movies that we're doing. Because as as you kind of mentioned, the franchises can get pretty pretty rough.

AP Strange:

Right. Well, I always like the dynamic between you and Alex, but the dynamic on This May Heard of It is also great. You guys are fun, and sometimes you have an extra guy in there. You'll have guests on occasionally, and yeah.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Maybe it's just it's Alex and I trying not to kill each other for most of it. It's sort sort of this uneasy truce that we have going on, whereas this might hurt a bit. It's a little friendlier.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's it's good stuff. But the top of my mind right now, since I do a series and I've done less of them in the past couple months and I feel bad about it, but I do a series of third movies in a series, the third time's a charm and I do it for science. So in the interest of science, since you're an expert on franchises covering them on This May Hurt a Bit, do you find any patterns with the third movie in a series or is there what do you think about second sequel as a phenomena?

John C. Meyers:

I mean, it's changed over time given how, you know, the nature of franchises and, you know, particularly the with multi verses and stuff like that. But in general, as sure as as you have discovered, through your own scientific research, is like the third movie is where it's like, can we get away with this one more time?

AP Strange:

Like, right,

John C. Meyers:

first one was like, this went well, let's do a sequel, maybe expand it out a little bit. And then it's usually a variation between, like, I guess we're gonna do another one or, okay, one more, but this is it. We're gonna wrap it up. You find a lot in in some horror franchises where, like, Friday the thirteenth part three, they were like, can we just kill Jason and be done? Right?

John C. Meyers:

And no, apparently, because they were, you know, eight more movies. But there's a lot of just like, it that what was once fun is now becoming a job to the filmmakers.

AP Strange:

Right. Well, and the Friday the thirteenth one, that's the three d one. Right? Jason three d.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Which was so much fun because I completely understood that three d is a dumb gimmick. And so, like, we're gonna, like, put a yo yo in your face rather than Yeah. Try to make it interesting.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Well, I mean, that was one of the ones we covered so far was Jaws three d.

John C. Meyers:

Oh, right. That's a three d one too. Yeah.

AP Strange:

It was around the same time, I think.

John C. Meyers:

Have you done I mean, since it seems like, like what what ones have you done so far? I guess I'll ask that.

AP Strange:

Well, I've done Halloween three was one of them.

John C. Meyers:

Uh-huh.

AP Strange:

We've covered Robocop three.

John C. Meyers:

Oh, boy.

AP Strange:

Leprechaun three, which kinda turned into a cover but a lot of the time, it turns into a conversation about the whole franchise because you Sure.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. They're hardly they're they're usually not stand alone films, with the exception I mean, I guess, Halloween three is because they they went we're what if we'd stopped doing Michael Myers and did this Yeah. Separate thing?

AP Strange:

That was kind of an interesting chat because the way we did it was talked about the writer who had his name removed from the movie, Nigel Neal.

John C. Meyers:

Oh. I did not know that. See, I still haven't I haven't we haven't done it on the show yet. That's one of the we we try to space out the big ones.

AP Strange:

Right.

John C. Meyers:

Because if we just do all of them right away and, you know, only so many people care about Wishmaster three. Right. And I am not one of them, but I had to watch it anyway. But, yeah, I did not know that that the that the the writer's name got removed. Did he get it removed because it was like, this was supposed to be its own thing, now you're making a Halloween movie, or was he just not happy in general?

AP Strange:

No. They messed with the plot and and changed a bunch of things and kinda turned it into a cartoonish thing that he wasn't really going for. I mean, Nigel Neal is a really well known, like, British writer. He did, like, Quater Mass. He came up with that.

John C. Meyers:

Oh, okay. Sure.

AP Strange:

Stone tape and yeah.

John C. Meyers:

So Oh, damn. I love the stone tape. I did not realize that was the guy.

AP Strange:

Yeah. It's the same guy. But I mean, his story, I think, revolved more around like the Stonehenge stuff. And That

John C. Meyers:

makes a lot of sense now knowing that. Yeah.

AP Strange:

Right.

John C. Meyers:

I wonder if the original had the the masks turning kids heads into bugs.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Don't know.

John C. Meyers:

Main thing I remember from that movie.

AP Strange:

Yeah. I mean, it did have to do with child sacrifice, I think. But

John C. Meyers:

Well, good. As long as they kept that, then I'm I'm okay. I don't

AP Strange:

see But I thought that was a fun way to approach the movie, and I've had fun with the movies in general because having a different person on every time to talk the third movie in a series is naturally gonna lend itself to a variety of ways of approaching it and that one I feel like a lot of people have covered Halloween three. It's become kind of like a cult classic that everybody loves so it was kind of a nice way to talk about it without even really talking about the movie. We ended up talking about Nigel Neal more you know.

John C. Meyers:

Nice. Yeah I think because now that you mentioned I think Alex and I did it once, and I think we mainly just talked about how the plan to rule the world with robots was right there. Why didn't you just do that? I think that was mainly our focus.

AP Strange:

Well, maybe that was more of the original plot.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Yeah. It's like I've learned that that ghosts and Stonehenge are dumb. Robots are the way of the future. Make my mind about robots.

John C. Meyers:

And they said, no. We have to have Stonehenge. You're you're that is your thing. And he didn't wanna get tied down. I've decided.

John C. Meyers:

I am basing that on nothing.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Okay. So this is your own legendary history. Yeah. Is

John C. Meyers:

my my intelligent analysis of Halloween three.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Well, I mean, see that that one is an example where I think you almost had a franchise say let's just do something completely different with the third one and move in a different direction with it and that was kind of Carpenter's idea was to do it more like an anthology. So every sequel would just be it's standalone story, you know, Which which is a cool idea, but I think within the the context of like slasher franchises, people just wanna see the bad guy come back and cheer for him as he kills people.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. I mean, there's there's there's a reason that these things kept selling for a long time, that there was that there was 11 Jason movies and, you know, particularly back in the eighties when, you know, there wasn't a just a glut of content out there, for lack of a better word. They're like, well, this is my only chance to see Mike Myers do something again. So I'll I'll tune back in. But I was thinking about the only other movie I could think of, the only other trilogy that's or I'm sorry, franchise that's coming on my mind that's like the third one's way different is the Fast and the Furious.

John C. Meyers:

Because the third one's Tokyo Drift, and that one that's that's has like none of the original cast in there. I think maybe Vin Diesel shows up once, but it's it's an outlier as well. I think that's Yeah. It's just I mean, it's it's about cars. So it's not like they went way off the reservation for that one.

AP Strange:

But Right.

John C. Meyers:

If you if you were there, if you wanted to see Paul Walker and Vin Diesel, you were in for a rude awakening.

AP Strange:

But it's okay because they made a couple more sequels.

John C. Meyers:

They yeah. Fortunately, they listen to the fans. Although there's mean, Tokyo Drift has its defenders. People really, really like that one.

AP Strange:

Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

It didn't do much for me, but I'm not big on that franchise as a whole.

AP Strange:

Right. Yeah. I don't think I've seen a single one of them, actually.

John C. Meyers:

The I think if I would recommend one, it would be five, fast five, because it's just a ridiculous heist movie and real silly. And that's kind of where I would like that series to be, because I don't care about cars at all.

AP Strange:

Right.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. So there's like, well, what if we what if we did something fun with cars rather than have them look neat?

AP Strange:

Yeah. Yeah. I could see that. Or you could do fast and the furious in space.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. They did. I think they went to space in a recent one. Like, it was one of those Was

AP Strange:

they really?

John C. Meyers:

Like, a halo jumps like that. Like, they I don't they were, like, we're on planet speed you lawn or something. But I think they went up to I I kind of stopped paying attention.

AP Strange:

Right. I think

John C. Meyers:

I saw fast eight. I don't even remember anymore. I think that was during lockdown, and everything was just a mess. Fuck that. It stopped working.

AP Strange:

Well, they kept making them after Paul Walker died.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Yeah.

AP Strange:

Yeah. How about that?

John C. Meyers:

There's still yeah. There's still money to be made, with the with the the rock and ludicrous.

AP Strange:

Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

It got eclipsed, that Paul Walker.

AP Strange:

Well, it's a that's what capitalism does.

John C. Meyers:

It just ruins Paul Walker. Mark said that, I think.

AP Strange:

Yeah. I think that's in that's in Marx's writings for sure.

John C. Meyers:

Yes. It does. That be tall. Tokyo Drift.

AP Strange:

Yeah. The third installment of Das Kapital.

John C. Meyers:

Which that that one was meant to be an anthology, but he ended up just he's sticking on communism and just sticking right with it. So you never know where it's gonna go.

AP Strange:

Right. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's easy to be cynical about it and I think it's actually hard not to be because it's like obviously it's a money grab and you have the recognizability of a character. So you just gotta keep churning stuff out. But there's there's a joy to be found in some of the trash of the sequels.

AP Strange:

Absolutely. Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. And I think I think that that's that's a big thing with the third one is that is when it's like, okay, this is for the money. Because in some cases, always is, you know, but you can definitely have like a movie like Hellraiser, for example. The the second one is so much more, expanding the ideas of the first one and, like, making the world a bit bigger. Some some new characters, some new ideas with the whole thing.

John C. Meyers:

And then the third one's like, well, we already did that. So what if we just turn Pinhead into a slasher? And we don't have as much money. So a lot of times, the third one is the first foray in the straight to video. That was the case with Horizont three, but it really starts to complain that this is just we're trying to make money on this.

John C. Meyers:

We we don't really care about the universe or or whatever.

AP Strange:

Right. But Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

And that like Hellraiser three, but it's it's awful. That

AP Strange:

seemed like a particularly rough one. Like, you guy you guys were definitely hurting a bit by the end of that.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. That one is all the Hellraiser series is awful because they stopped like, you you could you could be like, okay. Jason's coming back from the from the dead again to kill teenagers again. However, they don't even do that in Hellraiser. They just started making movies that weren't Hellraiser Hellraiser movies.

John C. Meyers:

They just would get scripts and be like, guess what? This is a Hellraiser movie now. Put Pinhead in it. Boom. Make that.

John C. Meyers:

Done. Right. And so it's

AP Strange:

After Romania to film this thing and

John C. Meyers:

Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. And so there there was just not really a through line of what of the the characters of the world are in like that. And there was one particular hellraiser revelations that they basically made over a weekend just so they could hold on to the rights.

AP Strange:

Yeah. That's a that's a fascinating, angle to it that I didn't really consider until I was listening to your series on Hellraiser actually is that that's that's definitely a thing where, like, they're gonna lose the rights if they don't make something.

John C. Meyers:

Right. That's like the there's always gonna be, like, a new watchman something or other coming out because as soon as they've lose the rights that they have to give Alan Moore DC has to give Alan Moore a whole bunch of money. Right. And so they're always finding new ways to like repackage it or do something else with it just to extend those rights out a little little bit more.

AP Strange:

Yeah. That's crazy to me. But sometimes sometimes it's hilarious where, like, you have, Warren Beatty every so many years appearing on TV in character as Dick Tracy.

John C. Meyers:

Being the insane Dick Tracy. I did not watch that special that he did on, like, AMC, but I just saw some screenshots of it that were just the saddled man in a yellow trench coat. And, man, that's ridiculous. But, you know, I will at at least he's putting himself out there. He's not making someone else do it.

John C. Meyers:

Right. It's like, if I gotta go act the fool to get to to keep the a hold of Dick Tracy, I'm gonna do it.

AP Strange:

It is hilarious, but, you know, I'd actually kinda like to see a new Dick Tracy. That might be fun.

John C. Meyers:

I would. The first one's real fun. Like, in particularly in the the kind of drab color palette that current movies tend to be. It's so just, like, bright and shiny and colorful, and all, like, the makeup is pretty goofy. I had a good time with it.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I think I I think that kind of fun, you know, needs a comeback.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah.

AP Strange:

I think Peter Gunn does that pretty well. I don't I don't know how you feel about.

John C. Meyers:

Oh, James Gunn?

AP Strange:

James Gunn. Yeah. Not Peter Gunn. That's the song.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. It's not I mean, I I enjoyed that song. I think it does it pretty well.

AP Strange:

Great. Good old Henry Mancini. You know?

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. I'm not I'm not the the world's biggest James Gunn fan, but, like, I appreciate that he's got his own particular style, you know, that he brings like, I enjoyed the new Superman. That was that was a lot of fun, and I think his style like, when he's when he's at a little bit more of his, like, edge lord mode, like, this is a little bit less so, but more like the mid two thousands, like, with super and stuff like that. He was a little bit more, like, online edge lord kinda guy. And sometimes those instincts still show up in not wanting to let an a sentimental moment be a sentimental moment, undercut it with a joke, or let the soundtrack just do the work.

John C. Meyers:

And I think he did a better job of that in in Superman this time around.

AP Strange:

Yeah. I like Superman.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. It was fun. I'm I'm mean, particularly after the Zack Snyder ones, it was nice to have a fun Superman.

AP Strange:

Yeah. See, that's the kind of thing I'd like to get away from is the the Zack Snyder of it all.

John C. Meyers:

Well, it's just it's the idea too that that they took that and then went They're like, well, we need to make every DC property as dark as Batman. It's like, that's not what comic books are. You know? Right. They're they're different kinds of like Aqua.

John C. Meyers:

I'm not reading Aquaman to get dark and gritty.

AP Strange:

Right.

John C. Meyers:

And I mean, I know they did that that movie a little bit differently, but it's still some of those same earmarks. Like I just I like where Alex and I are doing the fantastic for movie for the show. And so I had to watch that. And the the worst parts of it were the stuff. It's like, right.

John C. Meyers:

This is a Marvel movie.

AP Strange:

I feel

John C. Meyers:

it's got a tie into a larger thing. And it was pretty fun.

AP Strange:

Does it though? I mean, that episode isn't out yet. For our recording, but it will be by the time this is out. So listeners, can go look at John and Alex hate stuff and you can hear about the Fantastic Four there. You can

John C. Meyers:

hear me complain there.

AP Strange:

So alright. So I'm taking it. You you didn't like it overall?

John C. Meyers:

Or I'm I'm I'm still thinking about it. It's fine. Like, I just it's I'm just growing tired of superhero movies, but as a superhero movie, yeah, it's fine. It's one of those, like, Marvels. It's you could you could have done a lot worse, and they have.

AP Strange:

See, people were raving about that one, and I was very underwhelmed and actually kinda irritated by it. And it might be that I saw it at a drive through and the sound quality wasn't that great because I was listening to it through a radio. Uh-huh. But that that might have had something to do with it. But people were talking about the score and I'm like, what score?

AP Strange:

I didn't even it didn't really come through for me.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. I I can't I can't tell you that the score is was that memorable for me. Yeah. I I didn't really notice it. I I know there's there's a thing, there's an online critic, or video essayist, Tony Zhao, that has a series called, like, Every Frame a Painting, I think.

John C. Meyers:

And he did a video about how so many scores now aren't memorable because they're all they all sound the same because people put in temporary tracks when they're editing. So, like, alright. We're gonna this is gonna be we'll just we're gonna put this in to kinda get the the tempo of the scene, the pace of it, and sort of the feel that we want. And then they fall in love with that track. And so when it's time for the music, they're like, we'll make the music sound like that.

John C. Meyers:

And then you end up just repeating, like, everything sounds like a Hans Zimmer drop from, inception now. But yeah, it's so it's like the Avengers theme. I couldn't tell you that. How that goes at all, even though I've seen the majority of those movies. It's like, know it when I hear it, but it just doesn't stick with me.

AP Strange:

Right. I mean, and that's that's one of the things that I think people get nostalgic for, especially with, like, eighties movies. It's like, you know, back of the future theme, you know, the star wars theme. Right. Like, it like, these the Superman theme from then, you know, it's like Mhmm.

AP Strange:

They they were, big iconic scores, and and nowadays, I guess, people don't do that so much.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. We need well, we need less focus on AI and more on preserving and, like, hooking him up to a golden throne kind of situation, John Williams, like, just harvesting John Williams' musical talent for eternity. Like, he's not allowed to die. He's just hooked up to tubes so he can write, like, big sweeping scores for our action films.

AP Strange:

They just, like, prop him up, and he could be, like, an abominable doctor fives, like, hooked up to his organ. Basically.

John C. Meyers:

Just every moment suffering unless he creates the music, then he gets a drug pumped into his brain that soothes the pain. Then he's happy, we're happy. It's win win. It's it's

AP Strange:

really the best for everybody involved.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it's it's would you want to make all of society worse with AI, or would you like to torture one John Williams and get some sweet music?

AP Strange:

Right.

John C. Meyers:

It seems pretty simple to me.

AP Strange:

Yep. Yeah. The good of the many outweighs the good of the one. John Williams.

John C. Meyers:

No. Just the one John Williams. Yeah. Anyone else, this doesn't apply to it. It's only John Williams.

AP Strange:

Well, one thing I did appreciate in the Marvel movies was, especially with, like, Guardians, was just kinda like the mixtape idea of doing a soundtrack where where it was, you know, kinda selecting cool songs, you know?

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. It's what I just think I think like tying it to that for me tying it to that gimmick became a little tiresome because it's like the first one is this this was a tape for my mom. This meant so much to me. And then the second was like, yeah, but my friends made me this new tape. And the third one is I guess that tape went bad.

John C. Meyers:

So I made a third tape and it starts to become a little bit less like meaningful.

AP Strange:

Right.

John C. Meyers:

Or just the background of like no these how these things go, which is you know, it's fine. The soundtracks are are fun.

AP Strange:

Yeah. I mean I got the sense that like the seventies mixtape, the 70s music mixtape of the first one and that comes into like Doctor Strange as well. That it was supposed to kind of represent the music that maybe those guys were listening to when they created the characters. Yeah. Or writing some of those big stories in the seventies and stuff.

AP Strange:

You know?

John C. Meyers:

Right. Well, I learned that, like, Fantastic Four takes place on Earth 08/28, and the reason it's called that is because Jack Kirby's birthday is 08/28.

AP Strange:

Oh, how about that?

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. So it's like, oh, okay.

AP Strange:

Okay. So that gets to my, theory about the Fantastic Four movie is that since they went to the trouble of telling us it was Earth eight two eight at the beginning Mhmm. And then just move past that and never mention it again, I'm like, this is an alternate timeline of the same Marvel Cinematic Universe, isn't it? Like Basically. None of this happened in the

John C. Meyers:

I don't know if that's I don't know if that's the main earth. I Marvel heads sound off in the comments. But it does seem like as soon as I saw that, it's like, so does that mean none of this is gonna matter? The fact that you're pointing that out? And I think that's where you run into problems with your tying everything together, is that then you have to account for everything.

John C. Meyers:

Because I remember watching I think it was Captain America Winter Soldier where I was going, why don't why don't you just go get the Hulk?

AP Strange:

Why don't you Right.

John C. Meyers:

What's he doing? Go just go get him. Yeah. That's part of that's part of comic books. Whereas if it's just everything's its own standalone thing, you know, it doesn't really matter as much.

John C. Meyers:

You can you're free to you're free to get away with a lot more.

AP Strange:

Yeah. So, I mean, I think that you're a big comic book guy, though.

John C. Meyers:

I mean, I grew up reading some Marvel, and then I got way into DC for a bit.

AP Strange:

Okay. But,

John C. Meyers:

yeah, not as much as I used to be. I I kind of would get a lot of it was sort of through osmosis hanging out with other people and reading their comics or just like buying, you know, the big graphic novel collections of stuff. But I was never a go buy stuff regularly. Keep keep up issue to issue with stuff.

AP Strange:

Right.

John C. Meyers:

Kinda guy.

AP Strange:

Okay. Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

How about yourself? Do do much of that?

AP Strange:

Well, yeah, when I was younger, was a regular at the comic book shop, you know, drop in once a week when the new arrivals got there.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. I would go with my college roommate and then just read whatever he got. So

AP Strange:

Yeah. Yeah. I used to go with my friend and we'd each buy a title and then kinda trade, go back and read them and trade off and then you know, walk home with our respective comic books. Yeah. So it was a lot of fun but that was kind of during the era of alternative comics were huge, know?

AP Strange:

So I've always More been more

John C. Meyers:

of my wheelhouse.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Yeah. Like when really edge edge lordy when you look at it now is like Johnny the Homicidal Maniac. Was Yeah. Like reading

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Well, I would argue, like, probably less so than, preacher. Yeah. Because I think, yeah, Johnny, it was more like just that that kind of it was a it was a harder edge, like, Internet random humor kind of stuff. Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

Would be funnier stuff, whereas it it was never, like, as mean as some of those other ones. But, yeah, that was that one was pretty out there.

AP Strange:

I couldn't believe when invader Zim started. I'm like, they gave this guy a kid's show.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. They would like, looking at your output, how about kids? That seems like something you should be in charge of.

AP Strange:

Although, I guess when you learn about some of the personalities behind Nickelodeon back then, it is probably one of the one of the actually, the one of the better guys.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. He's yeah. He's like, all my weirdness is on the page. That's it. That's it.

John C. Meyers:

It all gets filtered there.

AP Strange:

Yeah. The horror show that you hear about some of those other guys.

John C. Meyers:

Oh, awful.

AP Strange:

The guy that created Ren and Stimpy.

John C. Meyers:

Yes. Yeah. And then and then, what's his name? Dan Schneider. Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

He did, like, all that bad stuff.

AP Strange:

Right. Yeah, I had no idea about that stuff. And that documentary came out. My wife watched it. I did not.

AP Strange:

And she told me about it. And I'm like, Oh, God. Yeah, I don't need to watch that.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Yeah. No, thanks.

AP Strange:

Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

I mean, I was I had no strong love for all that. So it's not like I was, you know, I remember watching it like a little bit. It was it was a little after my my time.

AP Strange:

Yeah, me

John C. Meyers:

too. But I didn't know that he was involved with it. But then after reading, reading some stuff about it. Yeah, he's a he's a nasty guy.

AP Strange:

Right. Right.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. And it's okay. As far as we know.

AP Strange:

What's that? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I would assume so. He seems fine.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully, hopefully is. Hopefully, there's not some dark secret.

John C. Meyers:

Hopefully, it's dark secret. It's like he's drawing like My Little Pony pictures or something that that's like, I'm actually really into this stuff. I'm not as dark as as people think.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, that kinda gets to like the whole horror movie thing too. It's like I'm I feel like a lot of people that are really into graphic horror and slashers and stuff and people that write the stuff and create the stuff are just, like, full of joy. You know?

AP Strange:

Like

John C. Meyers:

Yes. Yeah. I mean

AP Strange:

They're not really dark people. You know?

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. There's a lot of them that are just very nice people. Like, you know, back to always where you hear a lot of very lovely things about Clive Barker. I mean, he's he is into some weird stuff, but that's like, no. Keep that over here.

John C. Meyers:

And then over here, I'm nice. And, like, you know, finding out behind the scenes stuff on most of the movies, it's all pretty professional and people are are pretty into it. Very excited to, like, see what goofy little makeup gags they've come up with and stuff like that. Yeah. But then then you have some people where it's like, oh, you you kind of enjoy tormenting people.

John C. Meyers:

Like, some of it's just being young, Toby Hooper making the first Texas chainsaw. All, like, the the dinner family scenes were shot in a house in Texas in, like, a 110 degree weather, and they had to make it look like night. So they covered up all the windows, and it just really stunk in there. And they were doing, like, you know, sixteen hour days of shooting, and so everyone was just losing their mind and very upset.

AP Strange:

Yeah. But

John C. Meyers:

sometimes that that happens, when you're when you're a young filmmaker.

AP Strange:

I feel particularly bad for the guy that played the grandfather because, it seemed like a lot of heavy makeup on.

John C. Meyers:

It was a lot of makeup. Yeah. And it's I mean, fortunately, all I had to do was sit there for most of it. You could probably just try to sleep while everyone is screaming around you. But, yeah.

John C. Meyers:

But it still would be very uncomfortable. But I I think just being in Texas in general would be very uncomfortable.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Yeah. I'm all set.

John C. Meyers:

All good on that front.

AP Strange:

Yeah. And, well, that is actually one of the more, upsetting scenes in any movie ever, you know, is that dinner scene. It's it's effective. You know?

John C. Meyers:

And then we that that's why they in most everyone since the first one, they've tried to ape that in some capacity.

AP Strange:

Right.

John C. Meyers:

Because it it is such a powerful scene, and then you'll see it in other movies sort of lifted as well because it's pretty brutal.

AP Strange:

Right.

John C. Meyers:

And, you know, in in some cases, particularly as you move on into the into the franchise, you you often find that these more horrible things are happening. It's almost like the banality of evil where it's they don't have the time to worry about any of this. Like, all this awful stuff that they're capturing on film, it's like, we have to shoot this now. We don't have a budget. So I'm not gonna even dwell on the awful stuff that's happening here.

John C. Meyers:

Is it in frame? Great. Done. Like, go ahead and chop off ahead. That sounds fine.

John C. Meyers:

Is that lit? Well, great. Moving on.

AP Strange:

Right.

John C. Meyers:

It becomes so much more business like.

AP Strange:

Yeah, and they don't usually have the budget for a lot of stuff too. So sometimes they have to kind of rewrite on the fly, I guess.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. And Sans, that's where the fun stuff comes in, is seeing, like, what particularly, a one that I fell in love with while watching the series was Fantasm, because that one has always been Don Coscarelli. The different guy directed the fifth one, but it was basically Don Coscarelli was like over his shoulder the whole time. But he's always just been I he said, like I try to make other movies. They don't get funded and so that I make another fantasm.

John C. Meyers:

And then people get excited about that phantasm, and then I get off to make other movies, and then those movies don't get funded. So we just kept going back, and the the plot doesn't make any sense overall. There's just some oh, you know, there's a steel ball, and it's stealing people's and there's, stealing people's brains, and there's Angus Skrim being the tall man. But, like, by the time you get to the fourth one, he's, like, reusing a bunch of old footage that he never did from the original. And he's making this, like, weird meditation on death.

John C. Meyers:

And so this being able to take it and shave the franchise in these weird directions because you have such a limited resources can make it a little bit more interesting Yeah. Than what you can what you can do with it. Also, just having that sole voice of authorship is nice. That's also true with the Chucky franchise. Don Mancini, I think is the guy's name, that has been with it since day one, like writing it, and he started taking over directing, and then made it more specifically focused on, like, queer issues and and things like that, and gave it a real shot in the arm with taking it in, like, wild directions and leaning leaning on the comedy side of it pretty heavily.

AP Strange:

Well, I don't think I've seen past child's play three. So I

John C. Meyers:

They're I've seen, like, they're spotty because, locally here, the Hollywood theater has a regular feature called queer horror that's hosted by this, drag clown named Carla Rossi. And everything every Valentine's Day, they show a child's play movie. I don't know how that got started or why it got started, but so my partner and I would go and see the child's play movies. Uh-huh. And just whatever order they were playing them in.

John C. Meyers:

It's like this, we're doing, I don't know, seed of Chucky. So let's go watch that.

AP Strange:

Wow. Yeah. Well, I, you know, I never even knew that there was a whole, queer following for Child to Play. I guess I just missed that whole part of it. I haven't seen those movies since I was young.

AP Strange:

So

John C. Meyers:

Right. Yeah. I mean, it didn't happen till a little bit later on. Like, the first I'd say the first three are pretty much, you know, your your bog standard horror movies, but there's elements then it starts to get much campier and and sillier when, Don Mansini gets on the road. Particularly when when, Jennifer Tilly gets involved.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Like the Brian and Chuck E. Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

I think it's six. Maybe I think it's I think it's Steven Chuck D. Something where Jennifer Tilly plays herself as well as the the evil doll, which is just ridiculous, and she's so over the top in that one.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

But those ones are a lot of fun. I'm excited to do those on the show.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, the the whole history of horror is so intertwined with the history of, like, queer expression and Mhmm. Movie making, you know. And as as as two cis white guys were out of you know?

John C. Meyers:

We're we're And have much to say about it.

AP Strange:

Yes. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for finishing that for me.

AP Strange:

That that was a John joke if ever there was one. So Yeah. Pretty much. Just feeding it to you.

John C. Meyers:

But you should you should check those out. They're a lot of fun.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Well, though, I mean, I do think about that, though, because you go back even to, like and I was gonna bring this up just because of the concept of of horror movie franchise is like right back at the beginning with the Universal movies. That seems like where that idea kind of where they really started trotting out the monster over and over again. But I mean, you look at like Frankenstein and James Whale and everybody involved with like, Bride of Frankenstein is a, you know, the queer authorship of that is super important to that being what it is.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, I think it's it's wild that all those eventually just became like, you know, Abbott and Costello meet the mummy or Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein. Yeah. And that hasn't happened as much in more modern day.

John C. Meyers:

Like, you'll get references to to horror in in comedy, stuff like that. And, you know, Freddie has met Jason. But Yeah. You don't get a lot of, like, you know, the American Pie kids meet, you know, I don't know. I felt like I was I was gonna say that I was like, the most recent reference I have is American Pie.

John C. Meyers:

Good God. I'm 87. Kids these days

AP Strange:

Well, we don't really have comedy teams like we used to, you know, like

John C. Meyers:

That's true. Yeah. Or it's or it's just like relegated to online or, you know, TV. There's not so much the the hilarious comedy stylings of, I don't know, Paul Rudd and what's his face? Seth Rogen anymore.

John C. Meyers:

Like, they're not even, right. I think that's like, you're Jonah Hill and Channing Tatum. They only did a couple of those.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe like Will Ferrell and John C. Reilly, like

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they did a bunch of them or I mean, now people just want, you know, Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman. Yeah. Deadpool and Wolverine forever, I guess.

AP Strange:

Yeah. But, I mean, they haven't got solo meat series. I do wanna do an episode eventually just on those. What's really? They're they're great.

AP Strange:

I mean, yeah.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. I've only seen the Frankenstein one and which is which is great. But it's also very funny, because like, they hated it. They like hated each other. They didn't want to do it.

John C. Meyers:

And the studio was like, basically, like, you're under contract, you have to do it end up being a lot of fun. But and they were like, Oh, okay, well, this is fine then.

AP Strange:

Well, it's a legitimately good universal horror movie too. Yeah. Like it Yeah. Yeah. And Boris Karloff refused to do it because he thought it cheapened to the whole thing.

AP Strange:

Mhmm. But then when it was so successful, he was like, can I meet Abbott and Costello in a movie?

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Give Boris a slice, Right.

AP Strange:

And then so they did. Abbott and Costello meet the killer and and he he played the killer, but they screwed up with the movie title for some reason, so his name got included in the title. So the title of the movie is Abbott and Costello Meet the Killer, comma, Boris Karloff, implying that Boris Karloff, the actor, is a murderer.

John C. Meyers:

Oh, that's that's mean. But, also, like, bad deal if you're Boris Karloff, the killer. You're like, well, I'm not even in this. That's not what I look like at all.

AP Strange:

I don't even sound like that.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. That's gonna write

AP Strange:

it that way. But yeah, mean, kind of get the sense that that's the Universal movies were kind of where where the franchise thing started and, that's where I kind of like developed my love for it because when you get to like Frankenstein, after Bride of Frankenstein, there's Son of, Ghost of, and then Frankenstein meets the wolf man. Yeah. And then then meets Ivan Castello, I think. Meets the wolf man is fantastic.

AP Strange:

I love that because you just have all the weird characters like meeting each other for some reason and you have to come up for the reason why they're all in the same place.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Because, like, like, if Abbott Costello meet Frankenstein, like, he Dracula, like, wants Frankenstein or something. Right? It's been a while since I've seen it, but I feel like there's some Dracula crossover there.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Dracula is basically like a mad scientist that needs to bring, Frankenstein back to life, and he he has the aid of another mad scientist, which is a woman Mhmm. Character. And the wolf man is trying to stop him.

John C. Meyers:

Sure.

AP Strange:

And Frankenstein's Makes sense. Frankenstein's inanimate body is delivered to the warehouse where Abbott and Costello work. Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

That's right.

AP Strange:

Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

I you know, there's something about, like, just how sweaty a premise can be sometimes where, like, if you just go with it, I'm on board. Like, that is all so stupid, but absolutely. Yes. Yep. That all just I mean, it's like they again, going back to Friday the thirteenth, they just had to come with all these just crazy reasons for him to come back to life.

John C. Meyers:

And one of particular favorites is I think it's for goes takes Manhattan. Like, he's at the bottom of the lake, and then they like, a boat drives over where he's buried and actually, like, trips some cables, and they electrocute him so he comes back to life. Sure. Why not?

AP Strange:

Yep. Well, that's the Frankenstein thing. Anytime you electrocute somebody, they come back to life.

John C. Meyers:

They come back to life. Just like just all you need is a car battery and some jumper cables, and grandma's back at Christmas.

AP Strange:

Right. It's that that's basic science. So

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Pretty much. But I just I love that. Like, that just make it as complicated and stupid as possible, and I'm gonna enjoy it a lot.

AP Strange:

Well, I think there was a topless woman involved too, and Jason takes Manhattan. Generally, yes. Yeah. That's

John C. Meyers:

a that's a pretty safe bet.

AP Strange:

Yeah. I think that's my favorite of the Friday the thirteenth series.

John C. Meyers:

Is that takes Manhattan?

AP Strange:

Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

Wow. That's a that's a brave stance. I I salute that. I can't even be mad.

AP Strange:

Well, it's the stupidest one. Yeah. I think it's fair

John C. Meyers:

to say. It is stupid. It's less like, because Ghost to Hell is pretty stupid, but it's Ghost to Hell feels more like a different movie than than they just made a Friday the thirteenth movie. But Takes Manhattan is a Jason movie, so it still counts. I still I'll be the stupidest one.

AP Strange:

Would you say that he takes Manhattan really, though, or does he visit Manhattan and Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

He kinda stops, pops in. Jason pops into Manhattan. It's mostly on a boat the whole time.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Right. Yeah. I don't think it would have gone over as well in Brooklyn. But

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Probably not. Jason in the Bronx might have been fun.

AP Strange:

Right.

John C. Meyers:

Running into there's another crossover running into Jackie Chan, and and they could have a rumble.

AP Strange:

Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Well, they eventually introduced, like, a, like, kind of a Jason Hunter in that series. Right?

AP Strange:

Like, it's like a bounty hunter looking for Jason to kill him They once and for

John C. Meyers:

tried in four, I think. In one of them, there's they introduced a character that was like my or maybe it was in three, where it's like my sister got killed, and I'm gonna avenge her death. And then Jason, like, kills him immediately. And then in part nine in goes to hell, there yeah. They introduced this, like, this bounty hunter character that, like the actor who played him is was a real goofball and was, demanded that he be a cowboy and was kind of sexually harassing a bunch of people on the set.

John C. Meyers:

But it's this character is, yeah, I'm the I'm the Jason Hunter, and I'm gonna get him. I've been after him for years. And in that one, they introduced this whole thing where Jason can can shift bodies. He's actually like there's a parasite in Jason that can go into your body and then you become Jason.

AP Strange:

Wow. It was that late in the franchise when they did that because I watched those all out of order when I was younger. Was just like whichever ones happened to be on HBO or Showtime after like my parents or my friend's parents got it. And then so I didn't see him in any kind of order.

John C. Meyers:

You know? Right. Yeah. There doesn't I mean, they there's usually a through line in terms of, like, where he how he died in the last one has to do with how they bring him back. Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

And I think in Jason's ghost hell, they just didn't bother with it because he is at the end of Takes Manhattan, he's dissolved in acid. And so he's like, well, don't worry about that. No. We didn't. Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

But otherwise, it doesn't really matter. There's not like, the first three are well, actually, the the the two and three are back to back, and I think four is in there as well where he's like, he's just mostly dead. They didn't they didn't kill him all the way. Because he's not even I mean, he's in the first one in a flashback. The the bad guy, the first one is his mom.

John C. Meyers:

Mhmm. They kill her. And for part two, Tom Savini hates part two because, like, that's the biggest jump you could make is that, oh, that the whole reason that she killed is all these people in part one is because Jason she blames the camp counselors for Jason's death. He drowned due to, inattentiveness from the counselor from negligence. Negligence.

John C. Meyers:

And so to have it be like, no, no, he wasn't dead. He was just living in a shack somewhere. Kinda defeats that on purpose, but they just went shut up, and made the movie anyway.

AP Strange:

Right.

John C. Meyers:

Anyway, so, yeah, it doesn't really matter. It's just that he's gonna show up, terrorize some people. It's not even till part six that he's officially undead. Yeah. And after that, it's, you know, whatever.

AP Strange:

Right. Yeah. How about that?

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Yeah. I could maybe know how to do math, but instead, no. I know how to I know about Jason dying a bunch. Right.

John C. Meyers:

That's what I've chosen to devote my brain to.

AP Strange:

Now Jason went to space too.

John C. Meyers:

Jason did go to space. Yeah.

AP Strange:

Jason Maxx.

John C. Meyers:

In the far future, he went to space. He gets he gets unfrozen by some people and and taken into space.

AP Strange:

It's generally a bad move to unfreeze Jason. But

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Yeah. You'd think, and they know that. But I think they wanna they want to sell him as, a weapon or, you know, he's he's got the secret of eternal life, so they wanna try to get that. And, you know, science gets too big for its own britches.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah, what's the what's the Jurassic Park thing? The all about about should or whatever.

AP Strange:

Right. Yeah. It's been so much time wondering whether they could. They didn't stop to think if they should. Yeah.

AP Strange:

Yeah. That kind

John C. Meyers:

of. There you go. Yeah. But, yeah. And that one's a lot of that one is just like, hey.

John C. Meyers:

You remember aliens? We're gonna do that, but with Jason.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Yeah. Do you plan on covering the alien franchise on on this favorite of it?

John C. Meyers:

Probably. I mean, it's it's my cohost, Jim, it's it's his favorite franchise. Like, two is probably his favorite movie, aliens. But that's another series that gets real bad that, like, after and I I still love part three. I I saw it when I was really young, and so it it it sort of embedded itself into my into my brain.

John C. Meyers:

It's got its own issues, but I still enjoy it. But everything after that has just been really diminishing returns. So

AP Strange:

Yeah. They just keep making them too.

John C. Meyers:

They yeah. There's just I I I remember who said it. There was a critic that was talking about I don't know if it was Covenant of Parethias that was like, yeah. The movie's fine. Why does it have to be an alien movie?

John C. Meyers:

Like, I don't understand why you did that, which is Right. Kind of my feeling about those two. It's like, these are all fine. I just don't know why you have to try to tie them to aliens. But

AP Strange:

Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

Whatever. We'll get to it when we get to it, guess. But I'm not it it's also for some of those, it's hard because, like, you know, aliens, these are huge formative movies for people, and they've been analyzed to death. And you're like, well, what what can I possibly add to that? Like, whenever when we did Psycho, it's like, well, yes, people are dying to hear what just some guy has to say about Psycho, and not that it hasn't been, like, you know, critically analyzed, all over the place.

John C. Meyers:

But then you get to the later ones where there's less and less people talking about him, and there's some really stuff there. Like, part three, psycho three directed by Anthony Perkins

AP Strange:

Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

And is incredibly, like, sleazy and nasty. Not what you would expect. And the second one actually is is better than it has any right to be for being psycho two.

AP Strange:

But,

John C. Meyers:

like, getting into those underseen ones, sometimes you you find treasures like that. They're like, this is actually still pretty fun. This is pretty cool.

AP Strange:

Yeah. I mean, that's that is cool. I mean, that that's the reason I like your show and also the reason I wanted to cover, like, the third movie because it's for me it was kind of a stupid idea to do it, but it was just stupid enough to work. Yeah. But also it's just the movies that maybe people aren't talking about as much and like you said with Psycho, I've seen all the sequels to Psycho and I'm like, I don't think it ever got to the point where it was really bad.

AP Strange:

The fourth one's like a TV movie and Yeah. It's a lot of flashbacks and stuff, which is like, it's alright.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. But It's it's fine. It's got you. It's got Elizabeth, Olivia Hussey, who's great. The, what's his name?

John C. Meyers:

The kid who played Elliot in ET. Blank on his name right now. Someone I'm sure is listening to this and yelling it. But he's he's good. It's it's fun.

John C. Meyers:

It's Right. It it manages to stay a decent it doesn't dip below a certain level of quality, I guess, the series. Whereas, other ones, you can see definitely where it's like, well, the SciFi channel bought this, and there's just no hope.

AP Strange:

Well, mean, yeah, I mean, the first one is a Hitchcock movie and the others aren't. So that's a big difference. But the others don't really betray the first one. You know, it's not like I kind of stay faithful to the to the character and to the to the story, you know? So

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. And I think sometimes you'll get like, you'll get people that are more interested in that, that like, okay. Well, how can we expand this character or do something interesting with it versus people that are like, well, I wanna make this I gotta put my mark on this. This has gotta be my movie that people know that this is my take on it versus just having fun with the character or exploring the concepts a little bit more because I think particularly in the in the early two thousands and you have a lot of like those gritty remakes of Friday the thirteenth of Texas chainsaw. It was really a lot more like what can we do to make this a little bit more like saw?

John C. Meyers:

What can we do to make this a little bit like mean and and gruesome rather than being like, well, what is this? What is the movie actually saying? What are we trying to, you know, the original one like what are its themes? Let's explore that and maybe take a different spin on it rather than just, like, more and more brutal.

AP Strange:

Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

And that seemed like a mode there for a little while.

AP Strange:

Yeah. And I mean, I think you pointed it out in in your episode on the later Texas Chainsaw Massacre ones that that had kind of like that gross kind of like music video kind of quality to a lot of the Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. I mean, it's it was it was a music video director, Marcus Nispel. And yeah, it's just really grimy. But it doesn't it doesn't have that, like, the grime the same kind of grime that, you know, I think the original was shot on I forget it was 16 or eight millimeter, but, like, that really low budget crappy quality.

AP Strange:

Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

I mean, I saw I saw that on, like, a pirated VHS. And so that's the thing that always kinda bums me out is that you lose some of that, like, you know, found, not found footage, but, you know, that that, like, this thing

AP Strange:

Like lost media. Yeah. Or, like, forbidden media sort of thing.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Like, this was this was the secret tape hand it down. Then, no, when it's, like, crisp and clear, it loses a little something to me, but it's still an amazing movie.

AP Strange:

That movie in particular had kind of a mystique around it where, you know, that it was like a particularly brutal movie and everybody, you know, it it was like when you're a kid. Yeah. You might not even be able to get a copy, but like, it would be just spoken of in whispers and people kind of had had to imagine what the movie was, you know?

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. And it's and it's so much more its reputation is so much gorier than the original one really is.

AP Strange:

It's Well, it's PG movie. Right?

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. There's there's not a lot of blood in it. Yeah. Most of most of it is just like the reactions to people, you know, like, you know, you see you see a woman get hung up on a on a meat hook, but it's doesn't like here's a close-up of the meat hook going into the back. It's just you being there in that moment and and experiencing that and watching her face writhe in pain is to me way more effective than just some gore.

John C. Meyers:

I I'm I enjoy a good good gore effect, but you know. Yeah. Used used smartly, I guess.

AP Strange:

Well, it's it speaks to the insanity of where sensors and people like that are gonna draw lines because it's like it's horrifying. The idea of being put on a meat hook is horrifying and the way they film it you just have to imagine what's happening because they don't show you.

John C. Meyers:

Right.

AP Strange:

So you and it makes you just squirm in your seat so much more.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. There was a movie, Japanese movie, Ichi the killer that, came out in the early two thousands. And I initially saw, r rated version of it. And there's a part where a character has to, like, cut off his own tongue. And they don't show it.

John C. Meyers:

And it was like, oh, just watching him over just like cringing and be like, oh, that's terrible. And then when you see it actually, you see the uncut version and actually does it, it's a little bit less. It's like, that's what that looks like. So much less terrifying than what I thought in my head. But it is it is to your point about the censors.

John C. Meyers:

That's that's such a weird thing because particularly in the eighties, when Friday the thirteenth was getting so big, there was definitely a pushback from the moral majority or whatever, the the Reagan era conservatives that were like, these are too awful, too terrible, and so censors were kowtowing to that a lot more and and punishing movies. I think it was part seven where, the the director Carl Buchler was like, I mean, for all of these, they would like, they would have to send it to the censor and get it back quite a few times, make cuts. They're like, no, it's still gonna be x, which was, death knell. Like, you could not release your movie would make zero money if it was x. You wanna get that r rating.

John C. Meyers:

But, like, they had one about, like, well, the when Jason chops off this guy's head, it can only bounce three times, not four.

AP Strange:

Right.

John C. Meyers:

You know, like, what what happens on the fourth bounce? What is that? Is that too gratuitous then? It's it's real weird what they come up with. But

AP Strange:

Yeah. Where they draw those lines is really strange.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. And probably in the in the in the mid to late eighties, there was a lot of fights with that. Right. I mean, there there generally is, but I think they were really harsh then because they were so those like Jason Freddy movies were so popular.

AP Strange:

Yeah. And I mean, that's a that's a push and pull that's been going on for the whole history of cinema where, you know, it's wide open and then all of a sudden people come in and, wanna clean up the industry and then Right. It kinda loosens up again and then they get stricter again.

John C. Meyers:

So Mhmm. Yeah. That sort of give and take. Yeah. It's wild.

John C. Meyers:

Because like I remember watching the Ken Russell's The Devils, which is a fantastic movie. And it's, I mean, it's pretty, blasphemous, among other things. But a lot of the the gross sex and violent stuff in there, it's like, this is just feels like I'm watching Game of Thrones. You know? Yes.

John C. Meyers:

It's just the the taste change and, what what our is what is offensive to some is less so to others as we as as there's more out there. I think you can stuff that they would that's in the earlier Jason movies or some of that stuff that seems would would come off as rather tame compared to some of the stuff that's like in saw or even some more recent stuff.

AP Strange:

Well, right. I mean, I think there came a point in the early two thousands maybe where, like, torture porn became the thing. And, you know, the the best kills and the and the most gore was the the the name of the game for a lot of those. And, I'm not into it. I gotta say.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Well, it's all like you can have a movie that's, like, incredibly gory like have you ever seen, Peter Jackson's Dead Alive?

AP Strange:

Yeah. It's one of my favorites.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Yeah. Insanely gory. A guy, like, straps a lawnmower to himself and runs at zombies and just disgusting and nasty, but it's so over the top and ridiculous.

AP Strange:

Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

But with those movies, you're at your Saw movies and and, like, hostile and those like that, it's where it's so much more about the suffering. It's so much more about watching someone suffer and have, you know, nails driven through their eyes or or whatever.

AP Strange:

Yeah. I hate that.

John C. Meyers:

This yeah. A little bit that's not my my style of horror, which is is funny because the for as brutal as some of the Saw movies are, they okay. So a a good example of the third one then, the third one, were like, we're done with this. We don't wanna do this anymore. Like, we'll leave it open just in case, but we're kind of we're wrapped up.

John C. Meyers:

Then the studio went, no, we're making too much money. We're gonna keep making more. That's why they killed Jigsaw at the end of three, and they still the fact that this plan has gone on for so many other movies since then is just ridiculous, but. The the those series the saw movies are so soap opera like they're so like intrigue and who's portraying who and stuff like that That it's funny because like they they've said that some of the filmmakers have said like we would create the script first and then kinda like well a trap goes here trap goes here trap goes here. We'll figure out the traps later, but the traps are what drew everyone.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. For the most part, I mean there are people that we know that that reached out to us from the show us doing the show that we're like, no, I actually was way into what was gonna happen next with this guy or whatever. But I don't to me it was always just about the traps and that's that sometimes the the ingenuity of those are a little bit more interesting than the than the actual watching them happen because it's just suffering.

AP Strange:

Right.

John C. Meyers:

Which is, you know, it it can be useful, but, if it's just that, like, I don't know this guy, but now all of a sudden, his hands are being carved up by a bunch of different razor blades. No. Thanks. You could've just you could've just hit him with a machete and had his head bounce three times, not four, and I would have been happy as a claim.

AP Strange:

Right. Yeah. I mean, it might sound counterintuitive to what we were just saying and putting oil on it on a meat hook and and then you have that. But that

John C. Meyers:

It was done tastefully.

AP Strange:

Yes. This is how you art for artfully torture somebody. Right. Now is it?

John C. Meyers:

I mean, because I mean, the the last twenty minutes of, I mean, at least twenty minutes of Texas Chainsaw are is them just terrorizing, Sally. But, like Right. It's not physical. It's, you know, it's not like they're they're literally tortured. It's all psychological and emotional, which is so much better.

AP Strange:

Right.

John C. Meyers:

So much more fun.

AP Strange:

Yeah. She's she's being forced to witness this shit.

John C. Meyers:

Right. Yeah.

AP Strange:

Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

And that's also my preferred kind of ending to where it's like, well, you you made it out, but you're nuts now. Like, you are crushed by what you've just seen.

AP Strange:

Right.

John C. Meyers:

Then where it's like, well, thank god that's over. Time to go back to my job.

AP Strange:

Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

Seems like a bummer deal.

AP Strange:

Yeah. I do like that when the terror seems a little bit more realistic. I mean, that case, like, she must have been really glad to be done with that movie too. So she was probably cracking up just from that, but

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. And then for, like, for the close ups, when they cut the close ups of her, freaking out that they filmed that in the studio, separately, whereas, like, just her and the camera, like, super close-up in her face. And I think just, like, basically yelled at her or, like, brought up a whole bunch of horrible memories or something like that to get her to have some horrible reaction. Like That's terrible. Psychologically tortured her.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. But that's I mean, people will do that. There's there's infamously a scene, the end of, The Exorcist when, father Carus has thrown himself out the window. And there's a priest that's supposed to be giving him his last rites. William Friedkin, like, was trying to direct the priest and was like, know, do you trust me?

John C. Meyers:

And the priest was like, yeah. And he just slapped the priest across the face. And he was like, okay, roll it. Just to get the priest in that, like, shocked and despite, what the hell? Because he wasn't an actor.

John C. Meyers:

Was just a priest, but you slapped a priest. Like, okay. Whatever it is.

AP Strange:

Whatever it

John C. Meyers:

is to get the shot, I guess.

AP Strange:

I think freaking just wanted an excuse to do that.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. I think that's some of it too. It's like, look. I went to Catholic school. Wham.

AP Strange:

Now where's the nun? Bring a nun over here. I'm gonna slap her too.

John C. Meyers:

Just get get a line. Give me some cardinals. Just

AP Strange:

Working his way up to the pope.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. They it was a pretty good movie, but, like, the last twenty minutes were just different Catholic, authority figures giving this guy last rites.

AP Strange:

Yeah. You know? A bishop to kick in the ass. You know?

John C. Meyers:

From the top rope. Give a stone cold stunner to the pope.

AP Strange:

Did you ever see his movie with the it was like a documentary about, father of Mort, the exorcist? No. The Vatican Exorcist? No. It's a dumb movie.

AP Strange:

I gotta say it's a documentary about a real life exorcist and a lot of it contains real life exorcism video. The Devil and Father Amorth is what it's called.

John C. Meyers:

Hell yeah.

AP Strange:

But I won't spoil it for you if you haven't seen it and listeners too, guess. I forgot the listeners are here, but the end of it is dumb as hell. So I think you'll enjoy it.

John C. Meyers:

Oh, alright. Yeah. I'm on board. Good, horrible exorcism movie.

AP Strange:

I mean, it is a real documentary. I mean, the guy was a real guy, a real exorcist. So

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. I've completely I like I there's a lot of William Friedkin that's flown under my radar. Like, I just watched Bug this year, which came out in, 2006 with Michael Shannon and actually Judd. Really good movie. Highly recommend that one, but I Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. I've I've only seen like Friedkin's like big hits, but this this looks amazing.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Yeah. The the the ending of it is very self self indulgent freak and putting himself in the story quite a bit. So it's a Oh, boy. Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

Orson Welles style. Love it.

AP Strange:

Yep. But, man, I was gonna pivot to something and now I don't know what it was. We got distracted by Sorry. VPN. No.

AP Strange:

Well, once we start talking about slapping priests, it's Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

Psychologically torturing actors.

AP Strange:

The derail thing. It was somewhere in there. Well, yeah, I mean, guess that's what I'm talking about though is the reactions of the characters. And I I guess that's because it's legit sometimes. But I mean there's a couple different ways to go with that.

AP Strange:

If the if the reactions are not proportionate, sometimes you can play that off comedically. Dead Alive was a great example. Like this guy's reactions to the undead are just like, alright, well this is something I gotta hide from everybody and you know, I gotta keep all these zombies in my house and somehow feed them and keep them alive for some reason.

John C. Meyers:

Or or that the priest's first, reaction is to do kung fu at one. Like Right. Yeah. Just ridiculous.

AP Strange:

Kicking ass for the lord. Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

Kick ass for the lord. That's right.

AP Strange:

I love that movie so much.

John C. Meyers:

It's been a long time since I've seen that one, but man.

AP Strange:

It had been for me too, but for Halloween, I rewatched it, with my wife and I'm like, I don't know if this will hold up. And I'm like, this this holds up in spades. This is all I ever wanna watch in a movie. Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

Well, there's a certain amount of, like, come back to this, Peter. Come on, Peter Jackson. Like, this was great. This was really fun stuff. You did your you did your big important Lord of the Rings.

John C. Meyers:

Stop upraising the Beatles and fix some dumb zombie stuff again.

AP Strange:

Oh my god. Get Back was intolerable. I couldn't watch that. It's like

John C. Meyers:

I've just seen, like, stills of the AI upscaling and no thanks.

AP Strange:

It well, I used to be in a band, so it's basically like hanging out in the practice room with your band, only it's the Beatles.

John C. Meyers:

Oh, cool.

AP Strange:

For hours.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah.

AP Strange:

Hours of that.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. You're like, yeah, I've done that.

AP Strange:

I've been there. Yeah. Now I know how every girl I drag to the band room felt.

John C. Meyers:

She was in awe that you were just like the Beatles?

AP Strange:

No. She was extremely bored and irritated with me. Fair enough. Yeah. Yeah.

AP Strange:

My my my thought is with Peter Jackson, his before he had a budget was wonderful. Everything up to the frighteners, I absolutely love, and well, not meet the feebles. I saw that once and I never need to watch the game. Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

That one's that one's a little bit, again, edge lordy for me. Right. Yeah. And and again, like, that's something that, particularly with those earlier horror franchises that we've done on on Heard a bit that I like a bit more is that these people that are just like, I have no money, and I'm just gonna see what I can get away with and try to do. And on one hand, I think it's great that that digital, filmmaking and, like, effects are so much more accessible and you can do a lot with it.

John C. Meyers:

At the same time, I think that hurts a little bit more because I think it's it's easier to find, like, you know, digital blood splatters online that you can just use versus, like, trying to figure out how would I make this work with a physical prop. Yeah. And again, that kind of ingenuity and and just making it work versus just we'll we'll fix it in post.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Well, I mean, I adore practical effects and stop motion animation and animatronics and puppetry. Like, all of that stuff is I I I love it. And, you know, it still exists. Like people still do it, which is which is and it's great when you see it, you know?

AP Strange:

And I feel like feel like people respond to it better.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. I mean, it's fun. I mean, because even, you know, stuff that's a little bit more high end on that stuff, the the stuff Leica puts out or whatever. It's sure they're using, like, top of the line equipment and and digital stuff to make it all amazing, but it's still a lot of artists and craftsmanship to make the actual little guys to move around. And that isn't to say that doing digital work is isn't artistry.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. It's it's just it's a different form.

AP Strange:

Yeah. But yeah.

John C. Meyers:

When you when you can see, like, the the the effort put into that, I think that reads a little bit differently than, like, it took me a long time to make this cloud glow so so that the practice could step out from behind it.

AP Strange:

But, I mean, there's also an uncannyness to the imperfectness of special effect or you know, practical effects where I mean, it's not exactly a scary movie but and you guys covered it Gremlins like where the scene where the Gremlin jumps in the pool or whatever and then there's a lot of them. Yeah. And you see him walking down the middle of the street and he turns around and like kind of waves his arm to bring everybody around and then all of a sudden there's a ton of them coming down the street.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah.

AP Strange:

It's all stop motion but and it's miniatures, I guess, but it it doesn't look right. And that makes it creepy, you know?

John C. Meyers:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's there's definitely a certain uncannyness like that was when we did basket case.

AP Strange:

Yeah,

John C. Meyers:

which is a movie that I remember like, again, seeing super late at night, like by myself and it being uncanny in this way that scared the heck out of me and you watch it now. It's like, this is just cheap and kind of silly. But there was something to that, like of how off it was. Right. Which that that series, by the time you get to number three in that series, the it's the same guy the whole time, Frank Henenlauter, who just went, this has gotta get sillier, and every movie got sillier and sillier.

John C. Meyers:

Like, the third one, there's a musical number in it. It's just ridiculous, but they're they're fun.

AP Strange:

Yeah. I I I think Belisle out of the basket is that that was that it didn't quite work, but it it didn't look right either, and it was kinda him just trashing the room in the first one. It's like

John C. Meyers:

because I think for me, like, kid, I think so much of was, his scream too, that weird, like, it was like Yeah. He was inhaling but screaming at the same time. But, yeah, I think just that unexpected claymation of it terrified me.

AP Strange:

It's just such a weird movie too. That's just Yeah. Yeah. And and the overacting and underacting combinations in it

John C. Meyers:

are And they that keeps going throughout the series. You get some, some big time over the top actors. That was a lot of fun.

AP Strange:

Yeah. See, I love that stuff. It's like, it just it tickles me in a way that that a lot of these more serious movies, I guess, or, like, big time movies don't, you know?

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Well, I think it's some of it is just movies that kind of know that they're silly, but don't need to underline it. You know, like, that you can that's it's a way to do it, I think there's a certain amount of, like, something like the Sharknado series, for example, where it's like, no. No. We know this is stupid, so we're gonna be as stupid as possible and let you know that we know we're being stupid.

John C. Meyers:

Or is it just be stupid. It's fine. You can just do that. You can you can have a a guy live in a basket and trash a hotel room. It's fine.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Because I mean, the point I was gonna make before is you can go one of two ways with the reaction that doesn't exactly make sense to the uncanny or horror elements there. And sometimes it just makes for a bad movie. I brought this on myself but the other night I was reminded of the movie Trap by M. Night Shyamalan and I have sworn off M Night Shyamalan a long time ago because all he ever does is make me angry.

AP Strange:

But I saw the trailer for this movie Trap and I'm like okay it seems like he gave away the twist in the trailer. Mhmm. There's a serial killer trying to escape this arena where the FBI knows he is. Yeah. So what's the twist?

AP Strange:

I know it's gonna be stupid. I know it's gonna piss me off, but I have to know what it is. And I watched this movie, and it is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. It's even worse than The Happening somehow.

John C. Meyers:

It's it's pretty dumb.

AP Strange:

You saw it?

John C. Meyers:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Think

AP Strange:

we did

John C. Meyers:

I think we did on the show. Even I don't remember. But, yeah, it's pretty it's pretty ridiculous.

AP Strange:

Maybe he did it as Patreon. Yeah. Maybe we did. I don't I don't remember.

John C. Meyers:

But, I was so, off of him after Old. Like, I hated And so Trappard was like, well, this is stupid, it doesn't seem as, like, as, like, self serious as as old did, but it was still pretty stupid. I think some of it was also just like, boy, it's nice to see Josh Hartnett again. What happened to that guy? I like that Josh Hartnett.

John C. Meyers:

But the movie itself is real real dumb.

AP Strange:

Yeah. And I think a part of it is the the reactions that people have. So Shyamalan's daughter there that plays the singer Lady Raven is never at any point like frightened. She doesn't seem frightened of this guy that she knows is a killer. Like every everybody that encounters him is like, okay.

AP Strange:

This is what I've been waiting for. I know how to handle this serial killer. And he's never threatening at any point. I'm like, what's the point of doing this movie then?

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. She I mean, because he loves his daughter, and he wants her to be a pop star. I or at least play one, which is, I guess, nice. If you have that kind of money and clout, you can do that for your kid, but, it did make for a very good movie. Yeah.

AP Strange:

Oh, I thought you meant the serial killer in the movie.

John C. Meyers:

Oh, yeah. No. Serial killer in the movie. He also was looking out for his daughter.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Maybe maybe this is M Night Shyamalan's way of admitting that he's a serial killer.

John C. Meyers:

Could be. Maybe and then he can meet Abbott and Costello. This has just been a whole whole long con to meet Abbott and Costello.

AP Strange:

Right. AI Abbott and Costello.

John C. Meyers:

Right. Yeah.

AP Strange:

That's actually a thing. There's this There's a channel on YouTube that does movies that don't exist with AI and a lot of them use Elvis, like what if Elvis was in this movie, you know, and Elvis versus the Night of the Living Dead or something like that.

John C. Meyers:

Oh my god.

AP Strange:

And I've had people like send me these. I'm like I'm not watching it. I'm not gonna watch But then they had Abbott and Costello meet The Exorcist and I was like all right, well I'm just gonna check this out just to see if AI can do Abbott and Costello and it cannot.

John C. Meyers:

Right, yeah.

AP Strange:

I'm just like, yeah, well there was a part where you know, they're outside the house from The Exorcist and they're talking and they're basically doing like a weird version of who's on first where he's like, hello Abbott and he's like, what? And he's like, no, I'm Abbott. He's like, you're Abbott. And I'm like, it had like the timing of who's on first, it didn't make any fucking sense. And I'm like, okay, the guy that's playing Bud Abbott doesn't look like Bud Abbott and he doesn't sound like Bud Abbott.

AP Strange:

Like, I thought the whole point of this AI thing was that you at least could generate their likeness as well. Yeah. But they couldn't even do that. And I'm like, this is terrible. This is just straight terrible.

AP Strange:

Then I'm like, wait, all they did was take a scene from Buck Private's and put it in this different scenario with flies flying around him. I'm like, this isn't I recognize that. I know what that's from.

John C. Meyers:

Why not just, like, watch Adam Costello in the middle of a gas leak? Like, just do that. That's that's cheaper. It's it's actually less damaging to the environment. Just just sit in front of a gas leak and watch your favorite movies and imagine.

AP Strange:

Or, you know, if you're really inclined to enjoy AI on this level, maybe set yourself on fire.

John C. Meyers:

For that. Yeah. That works too.

AP Strange:

You can consider it. Consider setting yourself on fire.

John C. Meyers:

What if Elvis set me on fire?

AP Strange:

Yeah. That's

John C. Meyers:

so that's so depressing. But I know as soon as we're done recording, I'm gonna I'm gonna look some of those up because I've I I like to hurt myself apparently. Yep. So

AP Strange:

Right. Yeah. Well, as a big fan of of Evan Costello and old time comedy in general, it's like I mean, that's something that computers can't do. They can't do humor. Yeah.

AP Strange:

There's no way. You know? Like, you can't

John C. Meyers:

It it does what Elon Musk considers humor, which is not good. Yeah. You know, epic bacon stuff, but, like, the yeah. That kinda like that timing and then and, moxie that Adam Costello have.

AP Strange:

I watched a video of the real Elon trying to tell a joke, and it was excruciating.

John C. Meyers:

Oh, that was bad. Yeah. That was so rough.

AP Strange:

Yeah. I don't know how the biggest losers in the world ended up being charge. But

John C. Meyers:

Computers. We should've we should've nipped that thing in the bud right away. Just going back and joining the Luddites.

AP Strange:

Yeah. I mean, as an avowed nerd, I have to say that, letting nerds do their thing has has only caused pain versus anxiety.

John C. Meyers:

But Yeah. There was I mean, they were bullied for a reason. And then as soon as we stop that so there needs to be some some ceiling of, well, okay. It's fine to be a nerd, but let's just calm down a little bit. That's Right.

John C. Meyers:

You know?

AP Strange:

You're still gonna get the book slapped out of your hands.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Yeah. Like, you have to get like, you can be, like Elon Musk, but you have to get, like, pantsed and dragged around the track at least, like, once or twice a year. Like, it's just just as a leveling off thing is like to keep you humble.

AP Strange:

Yeah, and I almost think part of the problem is that some of these guys like aren't nerds, they're just like want that nerd cred and without doing the work that it takes to like actually learn code or any of that stuff or even learn what the sci fi references are.

John C. Meyers:

Right. Yeah. Like, one of my favorites, while we're dogging on Elon is that someone, like, commented to him once that was, like, like, hey. Do you ever watch Neon Genesis Evangelion? And he just responds, nerve, which is like the name of the place where they work at.

John C. Meyers:

Like, so you just you just looked up a a word and said, like, yeah. That's my that's a normal response to this. Yeah. Yeah. The guy is dumb, and I I like I I just don't know how much, how you live being that much of a fraud, but he found a way.

John C. Meyers:

So good for him, I guess. You know?

AP Strange:

Right. Yeah. Well, it's like when he had the Cybertruck was still kind of new. He's like, is the this is the truck that Blade Runner would drive. It's like

John C. Meyers:

Oh, God. I forgot about that. Yes. Yeah. Oh.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Do you do you see many of those out where you are?

AP Strange:

Yes. Actually. And it it's astounding to me how many people have purchased one of those.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. I've seen I've seen quite a few. Like, I've seen probably the most, like, matte black. I've seen, like, a few of those, or, like

AP Strange:

I see a lot of companies buy them and then put wraps on them, which is just like Man. This is their advertising strategy is driving around the least aesthetically pleasing vehicle that's ever existed.

John C. Meyers:

Hey, everyone. I'm bad with money. Hire me to do your work. I don't value the dollar.

AP Strange:

Yeah. It's it's astounding. It's it's wild out there. It's wild. Yeah.

AP Strange:

People keep giving M Night Shyamalan money to make movies.

John C. Meyers:

You gotta shut down those spigots. That is Yeah. Just those those money money pipes going to those guys.

AP Strange:

Yeah. See, he could do with some sequels maybe. Why don't we do, like there should be a sequel to the 6¢. We could call it the 7¢.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. The 6 and a half cents. Technically

AP Strange:

6 and a half cents, half a dozen of the other sets.

John C. Meyers:

He he did do, splits and glass as, like, the unbreakable sequels.

AP Strange:

Oh, right. Right.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Because, like, split, like, only at the end, it's like, guess what? It's also Unbreakable. It's just like, fine. Whatever.

John C. Meyers:

I never saw Glass. It's one of those where I'm like, I liked Unbreakable. I'm good with Unbreakable. I don't wanna see anything else from these characters.

AP Strange:

I'm Right.

John C. Meyers:

Fine. You know? Yep. I also don't trust, like, again, like, you know, twenty years after the fact. It doesn't feel like, no.

John C. Meyers:

No. This this I didn't get to say what I really wanted to say. It just seems like you're cashing in.

AP Strange:

Yeah. I mean, I'm not anytime there's been one of those, like, revisit an old franchise thing, I don't think it works. It almost never works. It doesn't work for me anyway. Don't know how you feel about it.

John C. Meyers:

But It's it's you I have not seen a really great one. There's, in fact, a new Silent Night, Deadly Night coming out here this month.

AP Strange:

I heard about that. Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. I don't know if it's any good. The original's not any good, but it's it's just like

AP Strange:

I thought they were gonna remake it, but it's a sequel. It's like a

John C. Meyers:

legacy sequel. No. It's a it's a remake, I think. But it's it's more just that, you know, what are you what are you going to bring to it that's gonna be that's gonna justify it.

AP Strange:

Right.

John C. Meyers:

Then not make it not feel like just a money grab. And Yeah. I'm I'm not

AP Strange:

Remake Christmas evil, you cowards.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Yeah. Do that. That one's pretty wild. I'm sure you can find something to do to do with that.

John C. Meyers:

Right. Or or what's the word with Goldberg? Santa's sleigh. Bring back Santa's sleigh. He hasn't Goldberg needs the work, I'm sure.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, mean, speak of AI too. It's like the Indiana Jones sequel, the the most recent one I don't even remember the name of because I didn't like it.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah, well, the wheel of time. Was that it?

AP Strange:

Yeah. Something like that.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Yeah. De aging Harrison Ford, and it doesn't look convincing. I just I don't know what to tell you. It doesn't look convincing to me.

AP Strange:

I don't like it.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. At a certain time, you just gotta let it go, particularly when when it's centered around one actor, one guy like Jason, is at least, you know, just a hockey mask. There've been a bunch of different Jason's. Freddie is covered under a bunch of makeup. So you'd probably get away with that a little bit more.

John C. Meyers:

But, yeah, so often if it's just the one guy, then you're you're really up against it. Winter as far as, like, them aging. And, you you kinda you know, he's like 105 now or whatever. And you know, you see seeing him like jump off of motorcycles or something like that. I don't I don't wanna see that.

John C. Meyers:

I don't wanna see old Indiana Jones.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Yeah. I'd rather not see it. It's. Yeah.

AP Strange:

Yeah. And I don't wanna see old Han Solo either.

John C. Meyers:

Right. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Just that like, you know, and and we at a certain point, like, you have to age out of that in terms of, like, movies only being, hey. Remember this because you're gonna run out of this to remember.

John C. Meyers:

It's gonna be, hey. Remember when this movie remembered that thing? So, hopefully, we can get back to, like, having more subtle homages or more original stuff, but probably not because people don't like new things apparently.

AP Strange:

Yeah. And, I mean, when you cover an entire franchise with, with with Jim on this may hurt a bit. It's like you cover the the remakes as well. So Yeah. At the time of this recording, you did, Fright Night and needed the remake of Fright Night and then the part two to the remake.

AP Strange:

Didn't even know there was a part two to the remake of Fright

John C. Meyers:

It's just another remake. It's just it's straight to video, and they're in, they're in Romania. And, it's it's Jerry Dandridge, the vampire, is actually a woman now, and she's she's a professor over there. And they're Charlie, evil Ed, and Amy are over there for college, I guess.

AP Strange:

Yeah. It's University of Transylvania.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. To get their Romanian studies degrees. And, yeah, it's not very good. But it's just like they just that is clearly a cash grab where because it's the same production company and they're like well. This didn't make a lot of money.

John C. Meyers:

Let's try to get one more go out of it. So we went straight to videos like two years later. I think they went straight to DVD and just rushed this thing out. Yeah. Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

And so that's that's what I I I can't think of a remake that I've the Gus Van Sant psycho remake is such a specific thing as like an art project. It's it's kind of interesting or worth talking about. But so many of the other, like, we're bringing back Teska's chainsaw, we're bringing back Jason, not as good. Not as it it always seems to be less it it's just trying to make a more modern version of what the originals were. Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

And not, not bring any kind of like real ideas to it.

AP Strange:

Yeah, mean, think I think a lot of these start with kind of a, you know, lightning in a bottle sort of thing that you can't manufacture and you can't recreate. Test conditions had to be perfect for that to happen the first time. And the imperfection of it is part of the charm, know, so it's kinda

John C. Meyers:

Right, right, yeah, and I think that's some of it is by the time you get to the part three of something, it's a little bit like, well, what else can I say with this thing? Kind of done it, I'm good. So Right. That's what a lot of times you'll see the creators kind of veer off then. Although in Final Destination, one of the directors and the creators of the original one came back for that one because in the interim, he made I think that Jet Li movie, the one, and he didn't really do anything.

John C. Meyers:

And so he was like, alright. Well, I guess I'm back doing this. And he seemed that stoked to do it. But on the third the third those movies are all pretty fun. So I'd say, like, that recent one that came out, Polynesian, still good.

AP Strange:

Yeah. I mean, I I my my son and I went to see that, and I don't think he had ever seen a Final Destination movie before. And I'm like, it probably doesn't matter that he's never seen one.

John C. Meyers:

It absolutely does not.

AP Strange:

They're all kind of the same. I'm pretty sure. So

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. They're they're they all like they'll try to kind of tie it back a little bit. The second one really ties back to the first one, but other than that, it's I mean, it doesn't even really matter. It's more just big complicated ways for people to die.

AP Strange:

Yeah. And they're they're so fun in that way. They're just like a thrill ride every time, you know?

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. They're so ridiculous. And so when it's when it's kinda going back to what we're saying before, when it's like real when it gets gushy, it's it doesn't feel as bad, you know, because it's it's so ridiculous that someone got a piano dropped on them or or whatever.

AP Strange:

Right. The new one, they dropped the piano on a kid, didn't they?

John C. Meyers:

They did. They dropped a pane of glass on a on a kid and and skushed him in, I think, the second one. That it's just it's so every every death is played as a punch line. So it's, it's got that going forward as well. Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

Where it doesn't it doesn't feel bad. It feels like a cartoon. You know? You're like, well, I'm sure that kid's gonna blink and shake his head, and he'll be fine in the next scene.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Right. Well, okay. For listeners, is there a differentiate differentiation between a skush and a gush?

John C. Meyers:

Okay. This has come up a lot, and I'm going to get this wrong. We have we have talked about on this may hurt a bit the differences in between skushed and gushed. And skushed is when there's two like, a a closing wall trap, I think would be a skush. And I think a gush is when it's just one force acting down upon you.

AP Strange:

Alright.

John C. Meyers:

Or vice versa. I don't even remember, but it's come up a few times. I think maybe

AP Strange:

I think it might be the other way around.

John C. Meyers:

In the Saw series. Yeah. I think it might be the other way around. But mainly, that's only come up in the Saw series because that happens a few different times. There are a few different traps that will either squish or gush you.

AP Strange:

Right.

John C. Meyers:

But a lot of times, it's just, you know, machetes, I guess.

AP Strange:

Yeah. I mean, well, the final destination one, it's just like, it's, it's like the Rube Goldberg machine of horror movies.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it it is like it's it's having anxiety. It's thinking about, like, every little thing that could go wrong, and it does, and it always ends up in a very cartoonish death.

AP Strange:

And they're so good at faking you out the whole time. Like, he always thinks something else is gonna kill him, and that doesn't have anything to do with it, or it just plays a very minor part in how they die.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. And that's that's usually where a lot of the fun comes from. Because, like, I in part three, again, there's a lot of, so often in the series, it's the protagonists actively making things worse by trying to stop. So like in the third one, the main characters are convinced that the these photos they've taken at this, at this party, this amusement park, that those are predicting the deaths of other people. And so they jump into conclusion, they jump to conclusions about why that happens.

John C. Meyers:

Like, of them is like, oh, there's a fan nearby him. He's gonna, I don't know, get shot to buy a fan or something. And then what ends up happening is he gets hit by a truck, and the engine of the truck goes flying out the front of the truck and hits him in the head, and the fan blade kills him. And it's just, like, the most ridiculous things ever, or or, like, when there were that these girls were gonna get burned to death and they ended up frying to death in a in, tanning beds. Like just because, where they were at, they were some like the the temperature got too high in the beds and they got trapped in the beds.

John C. Meyers:

And it sounds horrifying when you say it, but when you see it happen, it's also ridiculous. It's also like this required a phone to ring, and the vibration of the phone moved this glass over here, which tipped over and spilled on this other thing, which caused this thing to happen. Yeah. It's so like, it doesn't feel like anything. It doesn't feel like anyone is really in danger, but they're gonna get skushed or gushed or Right.

AP Strange:

Or burned. Yeah. Or, you know, have something go through their head.

John C. Meyers:

Right. That's a that's a big popular one, in series is is the head impalement.

AP Strange:

Right. Especially if it comes out the eye, that's good. Or the mouth. Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. You see, it's and it's phrases like this that make it hard when you're a horror fan, that you just say that casually to people. And, like, why would I ever wanna watch that? You're like, no. Trust me.

John C. Meyers:

It's good, though.

AP Strange:

Yeah. And then you stop getting invited to Thanksgiving dinner.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Exactly.

AP Strange:

You're eating your meal alone and watching Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Uh-huh. The dinner scene will have to suffice.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. I'll make my friends in the YouTube comments.

AP Strange:

Yeah. It was kind of fun to see that most recent final destination in the theater because I think I saw the first one in the theater when that came out and then seeing like the most recent one because you kind of forget that like the crowd is reacting, like the crowd can't help but react when you're

John C. Meyers:

Oh yeah.

AP Strange:

In a packed theater watching that and it was like, that made it so much more fun is like everybody's either laughing nervously or just full on laughing and or just kinda going, oh, you know, like the big reactions to everything.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. And that's that's so much fun too with with really some of these older movies and being able to see them excuse me, see them at, like, repertory theaters and stuff like that. Is that communal experience? Like, you can you can watch a terrible movie on your own and be like, yeah, that's kinda fun. But it's so much more fun to watch with other Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

You know, even if there particularly if there's a certain kind of, you know, you know the movie's bad, everyone knows the movie's bad, so it's not that big of a deal if people are cracking wise or saying something during it. Like, it's all part of the fun. Mhmm. That that that kind of communal experience really adds to it. It's something like, yeah.

AP Strange:

Well, that's how, Rocky Horror became a thing is

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Absolutely.

AP Strange:

People didn't actually like the movie. They were all legitimately making fun of it.

John C. Meyers:

Right. Yeah. And it's like The Room, more or less than thing. Like, where it's just it's fun to go to go do that. And, like, one of my favorite movie going experiences was going to see snakes on a plane because everyone that went to go see them was knew it was gonna be terrible and wanted to be a wise ass about it.

AP Strange:

Right.

John C. Meyers:

So everyone was just having a good time because it's like we don't care that the movie's any it's called snakes on a plane. It's not like it's going to be good.

AP Strange:

We're all

John C. Meyers:

here to just have a goofy time watching it and so so it was a lot of fun.

AP Strange:

Yeah. And this kind of brings us back to the Ava and Kosto, Meet Frankenstein because the comic book store near me does a a movie double feature once a year that's like an appreciation for customers. So all you have to do is go buy something at the comic bookstore, they'll give you free tickets and you Oh that's nice. The one I went to was Monster Zero, the Godzilla movie with the people from Planet X wanna borrow Godzilla and Rodan to fight the three headed King Ghidorah and Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein And I was like, you gotta be kidding me. These are like two of my favorite movies.

John C. Meyers:

Oh, that's perfect.

AP Strange:

But being in a theater with like families and kids and like all kinds of people that are watching Abbott and Costello and laughing, It's like, this is great. Like, this stuff actually is timeless comedy. People are still laughing at it now and it's great to watch it with people because I've only ever watched that by myself.

John C. Meyers:

Right. Yeah. Yeah. You don't get a you don't get a chance to have that that that experience. That's really cool.

AP Strange:

Right. Yeah. Yeah and it sounds like the theater near you so you're in Portland right?

John C. Meyers:

Yeah.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Yeah. But you probably get all kinds of yeah special special showings of older movies and stuff.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Depending that we're we're very fortunate that the the Hollywood Theater I mean, there's there's a lot of great theaters here. The the Clinton Street, Cinema twenty one. I particularly the Hollywood theaters is is my ride or die, but they have all kinds of great shows. They've they do a bunch of 70 millimeter stuff, which is fun.

John C. Meyers:

But they'll have, a lot of, like, specialty things. Like I said, mentioned queer horror. They've done, like, a series based on, like, fashion stuff. They'll do, silent movies, matinees, and they'll have a guy play organ alongside of them. And, yeah, there's a wide variety of movies.

John C. Meyers:

It's not just whatever is coming out, you know, next week.

AP Strange:

Yeah. So these are, like, older theaters, some of them? Or Yeah. Have, like, an orchestra pit with the organ and stuff?

John C. Meyers:

Well, they they the organ was, like, the guy, like, wheels in, but the Hollywood theater's been around, I think, for, like, a hundred years, if if not more than that or at least close to it. And used to be a big, like, one screen giant theater with a balcony, and they split up the balcony into a couple of smaller theaters and, kept it going. And now it's it's mostly like a nonprofit thing. Like, can buy a membership to it, and you can I don't need to give their whole sales pitch here, but, but they do show a lot of like, they they do have some more modern movies that play there, and then they'll have more repertoire fair, like stuff that, has been screened before or art house stuff? And it's a lot of fun, a lot of variety just real close by, which is nice.

AP Strange:

Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, having a live organ player is a really cool thing. Here in Worcester, we had the Worcester Auditorium, was mostly an unused building for a long time and then but it has a huge pipe organ in it. So they did a showing of Nosferatu a couple of years ago and the guy played Oregon along with it.

AP Strange:

It was like so cool.

John C. Meyers:

That would be so much fun.

AP Strange:

Yeah.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. A lot of the old theaters end up becoming porn theaters because, like, that was the only way they could make some money. And there was a one particular in Portland called the Jefferson Street Theater that I was at because Lloyd Kaufman, the guy behind the trauma movies, like toxic or whatever, was coming to do a talk. And the person that brought him there thought it'd be funny to have him do this talk in a porn theater, and rented some equipment from a friend of mine, and I went with my friend to set it up. So we hung out all day in a porn theater listening to Lloyd Kaufman talk.

John C. Meyers:

And there was a guy there who was writing a book about old theaters and about how a lot of old theaters became porn theaters because Jefferson Street Theater was, I think, maybe built in the twenties or something like that. I don't know. Anyway, I find out later that guy lived in the apartment building I was living in. And so there was always this, like, we saw each other at a porno theater. We are never going to talk about it.

John C. Meyers:

We were both there for non porn related issues, but, like, this this is just an unspoken awkwardness between us for the rest of our lives now.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Every time you see each other, you just kinda do the hard stare for a second and then nod and walk away.

John C. Meyers:

I know what you did. Your secrets better be safe with know, if my secret's safe with you, it's safe with me. Let's

AP Strange:

Right.

John C. Meyers:

I will tell everyone that you were at a porno theater writing the book you wrote about porno theaters.

AP Strange:

Yeah, that's the kind of thing you can't really have a gotcha with, you know?

John C. Meyers:

Yeah.

AP Strange:

Don't But tell me. We had had one of those and, that got torn down a number of years ago, and I'm like, it had been vacant for a long time. I'm like, like Uh-huh. End of an era.

John C. Meyers:

It looks like one guy to trench coat like, oh, come on. Sorry, Steve. You weren't paying the

AP Strange:

bills. Right. We can't keep this going just for you. Yeah. No.

AP Strange:

But, oh, yeah, the Paris cinema. That's what it was called.

John C. Meyers:

Oh, nice.

AP Strange:

Which I always thought was funny.

John C. Meyers:

Oh, la la. It's very European.

AP Strange:

Yeah. Yep. Alright. Well, I think we've had some pretty good geeking out and off color humor tonight. Yeah.

AP Strange:

We need that.

John C. Meyers:

Pornography. So, yeah, that's a good place to stop.

AP Strange:

We have no place to go but down. You know? What do you have coming up for do you have it well, maybe you don't wanna spoil it for this may hurt a bit, but I

John C. Meyers:

I would I don't know. I mean, like, you you mentioned it where, like, by the time as of this recording, the next one we're doing is that is that Fright Night part two. And then after that, I'm not sure what we're gonna do. We put it on a couple ideas, but, I haven't decided yet. And then on John and Alex's stuff, we're doing the fantastic four first steps, and then, again, I don't know.

John C. Meyers:

We usually, like, come up with it as recording, like, oh, shoot. We have to do another movie.

AP Strange:

What

John C. Meyers:

should we do? So

AP Strange:

But you gotta, a couple of years worth of episodes.

John C. Meyers:

I know.

AP Strange:

At least a couple. I I always say a couple because I think I listened to a show for a couple of years, and then I realized how long it's been on. I'm

John C. Meyers:

like Yeah.

AP Strange:

How how long have I been listening to these two guys?

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. Alex Brunt, because I had forgotten that we had did we did Royal Tenenbaums pretty early on. I I wanna say that was, like, in the teens or something like that. Because we just did for the Patreon, we did the Phoenician scheme. And I brought up wanting to recheck out, wanting to revisit Royal Tenenbaums, and I was like, we did it on the show, like, eight years ago.

John C. Meyers:

I'm like, don't tell me that. Don't tell me eight years. That is depressing that we've been able make for that long. Oh my god. But yeah.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. So there's a backlog, of stuff for sure.

AP Strange:

Right. Right. Yeah. We can hear the original Bad Boy of podcasting and and John C. Meyers and trying to keep him in check.

AP Strange:

Right.

John C. Meyers:

Yeah. I want him to get too powerful.

AP Strange:

Right. Right. Well, alright. But thank you so much for coming on the show. This has been a lot of

John C. Meyers:

Thanks for having me. Yeah. Good time.

AP Strange:

Yep. Alright.